Technical Engine Light and Fault Codes - Help!

[DemonPandaOwner]

Unless the MAP sensor is a genuine Bosch on I'd leave the original in

Third party ones only have a 50/50 chance of being calibrated as well as the original, some work fine but some will cause driveability, mpg type issues

Sensor was a Bosch one. Fitted now so time will tell.
A thought occurred to me as I was driving along, could the water sloshing sound be caused by the fact the thermostat wasn't working properly for a while? The heater did work but I tried not to use it, in case there were issues, so could the damp and cold air of the winter have accumulated somewhere? I'm going to work tomorrow, so was thinking of running the heater (on engine setting rather than recirculating) all the way to see.if it helps? It takes about 40.mins / 15 miles with both town and dual carriageway driving.

Tried clearing the duck bills and little water came out but you could grow veg in the muck that came out!

 

[Mike1alike]

The water sloshing sound is made by the fact that there's air in your cooling system. It wasn't bled properly.
The heater "works" all the time on Fiats, whether you put the heat on or not. Having the heat turned off doesn't stop the coolant passing through the heater, it just redirects the flaps so air coming inside no to pass over the heater but over the AC condenser if you have AC, or just away from the heater if you don't have AC.

 

[koalar]

Two different issues

Water sloshing around, block duck bills (Drain)

Gurgling when engine fires up

Air in the coolant system


Both serious and need addressing ASAP before they cause further problems


Duck bills will eventually damage the body computer

Air in the system will eventually lead to a head gasket probably


I believe there is a strong possibility the air in the system was caused by only opening one bleed tap and has now rectified itself

 

[DemonPandaOwner]

Two different issues

Water sloshing around, block duck bills (Drain)

Gurgling when engine fires up

Air in the coolant system


Both serious and need addressing ASAP before they cause further problems


Duck bills will eventually damage the body computer

Air in the system will eventually lead to a head gasket probably


I believe there is a strong possibility the air in the system was caused by only opening one bleed tap and has now rectified itself

We rebled the system today and only coolant came out. As the sloshing is intermittent

Two different issues

Water sloshing around, block duck bills (Drain)

Gurgling when engine fires up

Air in the coolant system


Both serious and need addressing ASAP before they cause further problems


Duck bills will eventually damage the body computer

Air in the system will eventually lead to a head gasket probably


I believe there is a strong possibility the air in the system was caused by only opening one bleed tap and has now rectified itself

We re-bled.the system this morning after doing the MAP sensor (while we were.tinkering). All that came.out was coolant, no bubbles. The sensor was.a bit oily and the original.one so probably worth changing.

The water sounds.more.like it's trapped somewhere and sloshing about. It's odd as I can't see any anywhere but will try and go round the drain holes at the weekend and check them all.

 

[DemonPandaOwner]

The water sloshing sound is made by the fact that there's air in your cooling system. It wasn't bled properly.
The heater "works" all the time on Fiats, whether you put the heat on or not. Having the heat turned off doesn't stop the coolant passing through the heater, it just redirects the flaps so air coming inside no to pass over the heater but over the AC condenser if you have AC, or just away from the heater if you don't have AC.

I see what you mean, but how does that work if you want it to blow cold air?

 

[koalar]

Is this sound the second the engine fires up

 

[Mike1alike]

I see what you mean, but how does that work if you want it to blow cold air?

It's from that hot/cold selector. The selector for 'turning on' the heat, that 0-4 one is to start the fan and have it run on which speed you choose. The other one actually selects hot or cold, by positioning the flaps that direct air inside either on the heater and than the air comes hot, either on the AC condenser and the air comes cold (or away from the heater if there is no AC).

Now, with your sloshing sound, to make sure no air is in the heater (try recording it next time), after running the engine a little while to have the system pressurized park the car on an inclined surface with the front wheels on the higher ground. And than open the breather and keep it open for longer, let some coolant spill down because it's possible that after that the air to come out too, if there is any in the system. Just be careful cause it's hot.
If after that you still get the sounds, it's possible that heater is clogged and that's causing it. If it is and you want to unclog it you'll have to use citric acid because none of the dedicated commercial products really work. After that, you'll have to disconnect the heater hoses and connect a garden hose to rinse it from the both sides.

Question related to the possible sound source: do you have the air set to hot or cold? And the car has AC, doesn't it? If it's on cold and the AC on, low level of refrigerant is making that sound.

 

[DemonPandaOwner]

Is this sound the second the engine fires up

No. Usually within the first few minutes, but today I did a journey of 2.5 miles and it did happen in the outward and return, but stopped on the way back about a mile in.
Does very definitely seem to be passenger side behind the dash / Fritwell.

 

[DemonPandaOwner]

It's from that hot/cold selector. The selector for 'turning on' the heat, that 0-4 one is to start the fan and have it run on which speed you choose. The other one actually selects hot or cold, by positioning the flaps that direct air inside either on the heater and than the air comes hot, either on the AC condenser and the air comes cold (or away from the heater if there is no AC).

Now, with your sloshing sound, to make sure no air is in the heater (try recording it next time), after running the engine a little while to have the system pressurized park the car on an inclined surface with the front wheels on the higher ground. And than open the breather and keep it open for longer, let some coolant spill down because it's possible that after that the air to come out too, if there is any in the system. Just be careful cause it's hot.
If after that you still get the sounds, it's possible that heater is clogged and that's causing it. If it is and you want to unclog it you'll have to use citric acid because none of the dedicated commercial products really work. After that, you'll have to disconnect the heater hoses and connect a garden hose to rinse it from the both sides.

Question related to the possible sound source: do you have the air set to hot or cold? And the car has AC, doesn't it? If it's on cold and the AC on, low level of refrigerant is making that sound.

I'll give it a try.

Usually I'm on my own in the car so recording is tricky. From memory the air is set just over halfway. The beauty of a glass roof is, when it's sunny it's fairly warm in the car to start with!
We had the noise a bit before the thermostat was dine, and it didn't start immediately after.
Tomorrow will tell as I've got a 30 mile round trip to do.

 

[koalar]

No. Usually within the first few minutes, but today I did a journey of 2.5 miles and it did happen in the outward and return, but stopped on the way back about a mile in.
Does very definitely seem to be passenger side behind the dash / Fritwell.

Right where the feed to the heater matrix is, you should have any water under the windscreen by now

 

[DemonPandaOwner]

Right where the feed to the heater matrix is, you should have any water under the windscreen by now

Oh dear, Panda has done it again! Not any gurgling to speak of but the engine light came on again on the way home today.
Put the Foxwell scanner on it again and guess what P0172 again.
Being as we've replaced the MAP sensor, where do we go next? Dad changed the spark plugs when he did the sensor.

Weirdly, we've got more of the exhaust stuffing coming out again. Could this be linked?

 

[Mike1alike]

Being as we've replaced the MAP sensor, where do we go next?

Check the intake air control valve.

 

[DemonPandaOwner]

Check the intake air control valve.

Where would I find this? Is it under the airbox?
Please note I am a complete beginner when it comes to car repair. Willing but clueless!

 

[Mike1alike]

It's on the throttle body. What kind01 is your TB, electronic or old type, cabled?

 

[koalar]

Oh dear, Panda has done it again! Not any gurgling to speak of but the engine light came on again on the way home today.
Put the Foxwell scanner on it again and guess what P0172 again.
Being as we've replaced the MAP sensor, where do we go next? Dad changed the spark plugs when he did the sensor.

Post a picture of the old plugs

With the engine up to temperature, what's the long and short term fuel trims showing

Air filter isn't blocked is it

Weirdly, we've got more of the exhaust stuffing coming out again. Could this be linked?

Doubt it, these cars run fine with a big hole in the the front flexi joint

 

[DemonPandaOwner]

Post a picture of the old plugs

With the engine up to temperature, what's the long and short term fuel trims showing

Air filter isn't blocked is it


Doubt it, these cars run fine with a big hole in the the front flexi joint

The old plugs went to the tip about a week or so ago. They weren't sooty or oily, but we changed them.as we had them anyway. Air filter was.replaced earlier this year as well.

There is signs of oil on the block but think that might be the rocker gasket weeping again. It's not dripping, just mildly shiny.

I bought fuel yesterday, topped it right up, and thinking back I had done so the day before this happened last time. I have noticed that there is a thumpingish sound from the fuel tank when it's full, bit it's been doing that for a LONG time and goes away when you reach under 3/4 of a tank. I just assumed it's the fuel sloshing around or knocking the level measure device (don't know its technical name, sorry!)

 

[koalar]

Topping right up isn't good for the evap system

Evap failure and P0172 go hand in hand second post, so could well be a connection

 

[DemonPandaOwner]

Topping right up isn't good for the evap system

Evap failure and P0172 go hand in hand second post, so could well be a connection

Was only a full tank not absolutely brimmed. First click and I stopped.

Could it be the O2 sensor? If do, how could I test it? Dad had a similar issue with his Fiesta and replacing the sensor fixed it.

 

[koalar]

Without feedback we have no way of knowing what's going on

With the engine up to temperature, what's the long and short term fuel trims showing

You can randomly change parts and hope you hit the correct part quickly but if you guess wrong it can get expensive

Here is an example of a 500 which had

Changing to new:
-Battery (Varta Silver)
-Spark plugs (bosch iridium)
-Temp and Press sensor on the intake (new bosch installed)
-Water temp sensor (new delphi installed)
-Crank and cam shaft position sensors (new bosch installed)
-Installed new fuel pump assembly

None of which solved the problem

Post 2 give some of the possibilities

O2 SENSOR HEATER OPERATION
EVAP PURGE SOLENOID OPERATION
O2 SENSOR SIGNAL CIRCUIT
O2 SENSOR RETURN CIRCUIT
O2 SENSOR
MAP SENSOR
ECT SENSOR
ENGINE MECHANICAL
FUEL FILTER/PRESSURE REGULATOR
POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM)


Photo of all the plugs in the cylinder order would be helpful, is one injector leaking, I don't know from here

Pull the MAP and photo the end, is it coved a oil mist

We don't even know what type of engine management system we have yet, 1.2 dynamic could be cable or flyby wire

Take a picture of the throttle body

Any more water rushing sounds

 

[MrMagoo]

"thumpingish sound" - do you a whoosh of air when you undo the fuel cap?