Technical Ducato 2.8JTD Sluggish

[Harbottle]

Hi All

Newbie here.

We have a CI Motorhome on a 2003 (53 plate) ducato chassis. Just returned from our first trip out around Scotland and found that the vehicle was distinctly sluggish on hills. I was down to 3rd on some hills and on motorways up long drags large trucks were leaving me behind!!!!

It has done around 22000 miles and had a service in January the vehicle weight was around 3000kg so not overly heavy I think.

I chatted to other CI owners with similar setups at various campsites and they reckoned their vans flew uphills etc. Mine seem ok on the flat 70 - 75 easily, just as soon as I get on a slope the speed drops off drastically. Someone suggested changing the fuel filter but before I do I thought I would ask here first.

Thanks for your help.

Harbottle

 

[jhorsf]

when i had a 2.8 it did not slow down on motorways and pulled like a train? something is not right mine did about 28mpg on motorways 70mph

 

[T14086]

I'm not trying to insult your intelligence but how many mats/carpets do you have under the throttle pedal? Its obvious but I have seen it time & time again & 9 out of 10 times customer reports losing speed up long hills...worth a look!

 

[Harbottle]

Not insulted at all, no mats or carpets, they remain firmly in the lounge area However I have noticed a circular plastic block screwed to the floor under the accelerator pedal. It looks original fit to me but as I'm not the first owner I don't know for sure. The vehicle seems to have power when I change down into 3rd and floor the throttle. But on long inclines seems to run out of urge fairly quickly and speed trails off leaving me in the overtaking lane with a red face as every large truck starts to leave me behind.

 

[T14086]

I have noticed a circular plastic block screwed to the floor under the accelerator pedal.

this was subject to recall + could also unscrew it (no tools needed) just out of interest?

 

[John C S]

However I have noticed a circular plastic block screwed to the floor under the accelerator pedal.

Please PLEASE don't unscrew this block. I did this once and found myself barrelling down the A38 with pedal stuck to the floor. Luckily, it was a fast a road, I realised what had happened and lifted the accel pedal with my foot!!! On a windy road, god only knows what would have happened.

It's just a stopper, the pedal is fly-by-wire, and providing it is supplying up to 4.5v when tested on Fiat Examiner, it shouldn;t be a problem¬

I also tried loosening it off to try to save fuel and emission etc. That failed miserably as well, with no locknut, it kept vibrating loose.

I decided to screw it back in, just the way in their wisdom that Sevel Sud had designed it. It must be their for a purpose!!

AND, it didn't really make a jot of difference. I think your problem lies elsewhere.


Have you tried disconnecting the battery for 20 minutes, to try and reset the ECU to factory values?? Just a suggestion my friend!

this was subject to recall + could also unscrew it (no tools needed) just out of interest?

Would love to know about the recall T, given how I nearly killed myself

 

[Harbottle]

I haven't removed the block, I was reluctant to do so, I have had the battery disconnected on a previous occasion, but will try it again. However I am taking it for test drive with a Fiat Technician next week and see what he makes of it. I will keep you all posted.

Thanks for all the advice so far guys, any further suggestions welcome.

 

[T14086]

the new throttle stop had a edge on it compared to the older circular one

 

[Harbottle]

An update

Took it down to the main dealer and their techie test drove it and agreed with me that it was sluggish uphills. But couldn't fault the engine, checked underneath and found a recon gearbox fitted so came to the conclusion that 5th gear was to "tall" ie at 2000rpm 60mph change down and revs go up to 3000rpm. So I was wondering if someone has fitted a wrong spec g/box. Any comments appreciated please.

 

[FreeSpirit]

An update

Took it down to the main dealer and their techie test drove it and agreed with me that it was sluggish uphills. But couldn't fault the engine, checked underneath and found a recon gearbox fitted so came to the conclusion that 5th gear was to "tall" ie at 2000rpm 60mph change down and revs go up to 3000rpm. So I was wondering if someone has fitted a wrong spec g/box. Any comments appreciated please.

Hi
That gearing seems about right, ours is a 2003 2.8 JTD & there is a big gap between 4th & 5th gear with 5th gear being very tall it does around 95-96KPH @ 2000 rpm.We have certain roads where there is an 80 KPH speed limit but is so undulating it results in 5th is too high (which could be used if it was flat) & 4th is too low. Which is probably the only fault I have with the 244, it needs a 6 speed gearbox like the X250, there is an aftermarket replacement gearset I found available to lower the 5th gear ( which can be done without removing the gearbox) but this would then increase fuel consumption. This 5th gearset would be more suited city couriers/towing etc rather than touring. Also there are some hills where ours does the same thing - down to third & others where I thought 4th but it has actually gone up it in 5th but has of course slowed to 75-80 from 100kph.

 

[Harbottle]

Hi
That gearing seems about right, ours is a 2003 2.8 JTD & there is a big gap between 4th & 5th gear with 5th gear being very tall it does around 95-96KPH @ 2000 rpm.We have certain roads where there is an 80 KPH speed limit but is so undulating it results in 5th is too high (which could be used if it was flat) & 4th is too low. Which is probably the only fault I have with the 244, it needs a 6 speed gearbox like the X250, there is an aftermarket replacement gearset I found available to lower the 5th gear ( which can be done without removing the gearbox) but this would then increase fuel consumption. This 5th gearset would be more suited city couriers/towing etc rather than touring. Also there are some hills where ours does the same thing - down to third & others where I thought 4th but it has actually gone up it in 5th but has of course slowed to 75-80 from 100kph.

Thanks for your info, perhaps I'm expecting to much from it? I too have seen a different 5th gear set available here in the UK. It's not that expensive so I might give it a go.

 

[John C S]

Hi
That gearing seems about right, ours is a 2003 2.8 JTD & there is a big gap between 4th & 5th gear with 5th gear being very tall it does around 95-96KPH @ 2000 rpm.We have certain roads where there is an 80 KPH speed limit but is so undulating it results in 5th is too high (which could be used if it was flat) & 4th is too low.

It depends on the hill! I don't have a lot of problem with the gap between 4th and 5th, bearing in mind I'm laden a lot of the time with Domestic appliances, of which are heavy!

The variable turbo and torque overcome the big gap quite readily, even though my shining 2.8 Jtd seems only slightly a bit more lacklustre at 146,000 miles than it did when it was new!

Which is probably the only fault I have with the 244, it needs a 6 speed gearbox like the X250.

The 6 speed box is not always the answer:

I'm Driving a Mercedes Benz Sprinter 311CDI LWB for a few days whilst some body damage is repaired on the Ducato. 4th is equivalent to 4th on the Ducato and 6th is equivalent to 5th on the Ducato. 5th on the Sprinter just bridges the gap, which it needs to given it's a 16 valve CDI and ( I think ) the turbo is not variable vane, it needs.
However I'm getting p****d off of changing gear more often than in my 244 Ducato!

I agree, given that the new 3.0 JTD in the 250 Ducato is 16 valve and standard turbo, a 6-speed box is the way forward!

Thanks for your info, perhaps I'm expecting to much from it? I too have seen a different 5th gear set available here in the UK. It's not that expensive so I might give it a go.

I would think, changing for a gearbox that is out of a panel van / chassis cab is a better solution, but changing gear set may help! Unlucky though to need a new gearbox at 20,000 miles. Mine is only starting to graunch changing into 4th, of which I now have to double declutch.

I still think, your problem lies elsewhere! Air Filter, Diesel Filter or Intercooler issue. Or a trip to a Bosch Injection specialist that have correct diagnostic equipment could help. Also brakes binding may be an issue!

I don't honestly think a motor home would be too heavy for a 2.8 JTD.

The obvious is going to be cheaper to check first.

Another solution is to have it chipped.

 

[Harbottle]

I would think, changing for a gearbox that is out of a panel van / chassis cab is a better solution, but changing gear set may help! Unlucky though to need a new gearbox at 20,000 miles. Mine is only starting to graunch changing into 4th, of which I now have to double declutch.

I still think, your problem lies elsewhere! Air Filter, Diesel Filter or Intercooler issue. Or a trip to a Bosch Injection specialist that have correct diagnostic equipment could help. Also brakes binding may be an issue!

I don't honestly think a motor home would be too heavy for a 2.8 JTD.

The obvious is going to be cheaper to check first.

Another solution is to have it chipped.

The gearbox was changed before we bought it so, I'm not sure when it was done or at what mileage, very little history with the vehicle.

Air filter and fuel filter have already been changed and eng seems to produce plenty of power in any other gear than top.

It just seems that on long drags uphill the speed drops over fairly quickly in comparison to other Ducatos. The vehicle weight is around 3000kg laden

 

[triton]

Hi We have a tagaxle Burstner on a Ducato 2.8 JTD which has been chipped. I only use 5 gear above 70kmph,and it pulls like a train and still getting around 30 miles per gallon. I thought though it smoked a little, but just having new MOT the emissions test was low and passed with ease. Maybe an idea?? Good Luck

 

[zoro]

Thanks for your info, perhaps I'm expecting to much from it? I too have seen a different 5th gear set available here in the UK. It's not that expensive so I might give it a go.

Can someone please tell me where you can get these gear sets from. I actually want a higher ratio 5th gear than what is fitted

Thanks
Zoro

 

[gbtyke]

My 2.8JTD motorhome requires 50 mph for 5th gear. At that it is doing about 1800 revs which I think is the peak on the torque curve with very little below it. At 60+ mph it will take most hills no effort but drop to 50 and you need a change down. Weight about 3.3 tonne.

 

[John C S]

There is very little difference with a Maxi panel van heavily laden or unladen with the 2.8JTD.

I reckon it is the questionable gearbox that harbottle has.

If I remember tomorrow, I'll check and post up mph for 4th gear at 2000 revs in mine and then in 5th gear at 2000 revs, assuming we're running the same tyres!

 

[stilokid]

Can someone please tell me where you can get these gear sets from. I actually want a higher ratio 5th gear than what is fitted

Thanks
Zoro

I have 56 plate Ci Riverera 2.8 JTD 5th gear is doing 70MPH at 3000 rpm thats the highest gear ratio available. mine will pull from 35 mph in 5th no problem BUT MINE DRINKS LIKE A FISH ie 55mph 19 MPG 70MPH + 18MPG runs like a watch but its thirst 4 Diesel is killing me O and its been remapped milage 20.000 full service history:bang:

 

[lanyon]

Hi, I have a Fiat Ducato 2.8JTD year 2000 with only 16Kmiles on the clock on a hobby motorhome. The 3 months I have owned it, it has been fantastic, flying up hills in third and cruising all day at 80mph giving 30mph. Three days ago the power has dropped drastically, up hills in first gear and takes forever to reach 70mph. I am not a mechanic but it is almost as if the turbo as stopped working. Read the forums and tried some of the obvious things like dissconnecting battery, checked and removed carpets from under pedal and checked over visually for anything obvious. Please help!!!

 

[cris1117]

Hi
Have you checked the turbo hoses for splits and security of the connections?
If you are using supermarket fuel try Shell, BP or Esso it is like driving a different motor, pulls better MPG will improve and no smoke.
I have found Fiats don’t like cheap diesel something to do with being low sulphur and a cooler burn so I am told.
Have you got any warning lights on the dash?
The only other thing I have heard about is the wire to no 4 injector is a bit stretched and can lose connection intermittently.
Good luck