General Dualogic gearbox nightmare......

[jrkitching]

Git the car through 3rd party finance (could be a bit tricky to get a refund).
Am I right in saying that if the part is changed the car will ok. Truth is I live the car and can't find another one like it at the moment...

If you can get the complete selespeed unit replaced under warranty, you should be OK.

However this will likely cost more than the seller's entire profit margin on the car, so I doubt they will do this unless there is absolutely no alternative.

More likely they will patch it up to get it past the three months warranty period. Once that warranty has expired, you'll be on your own.

This is not a cheap repair, if done properly. Well into four figures; and seemingly more still if you happen to live in Australia.

 

[ahmett]

Git the car through 3rd party finance (could be a bit tricky to get a refund).

Am I right in saying that if the part is changed the car will ok. Truth is I live the car and can't find another one like it at the moment...

Yes but it will cost you 1500 gbp talk to the finance company see if they can help the car is defected and not fit for purpose !

 

[ahmett]

If you can get the complete selespeed unit replaced under warranty, you should be OK.

However this will likely cost more than the seller's entire profit margin on the car, so I doubt they will do this unless there is absolutely no alternative.

More likely they will patch it up to get it past the three months warranty period. Once that warranty has expired, you'll be on your own.

This is not a cheap repair, if done properly. Well into four figures; and seemingly more still if you happen to live in Australia.

Even the main dealer did this to me. Patch it up until it fails completely a few months down the line

 

[jrkitching]

Yes but it will cost you 1500 gbp talk to the finance company see if they can help the car is defected and not fit for purpose !

Got the car through 3rd party finance (could be a bit tricky to get a refund).

If bought using 3rd party finance this may not be an option. I don't see why this would prevent you from rejecting the car, though.

My original advice (to sem973) stands - go to an independent fiat specialist & if they can clear the warnings & restore functionality, drive it straight round to your favourite car showroom and trade it in for something else before it fails completely.

This may be exactly what the previous owner of matandjulie's car did.

The risk is greater if buying outside the franchised dealer network. Fiat dealers can check the internal service records & run diagnostics to avoid taking on cars with such histories in the first place.

 

[sem973]

Todays update.....well complete lack of it!..

Managed to make a quick call to customer care this morning.....whilst working, as Fiat seem to think I've all the time in the world....

& was told I'm yet to be assigned a case manager!! :bang::bang::bang:

Following a constructive rant.....yet again a promise of "we'll put an urgent request on your file"....

Meanwhile OH has found me Steve Zanlunghi MD Fiat UK email & contact number along with that of Justin Westnedge the Customer Experience Manager....

So in a nutshell.....7 days on & certainly no further.....

Strongly looking at shifting this car quickly on following a temp fix & buy something a whole lot more reliable & pleasurable to own!!...

 

[ahmett]

Todays update.....well complete lack of it!..

Managed to make a quick call to customer care this morning.....whilst working, as Fiat seem to think I've all the time in the world....

& was told I'm yet to be assigned a case manager!! :bang::bang::bang:

Following a constructive rant.....yet again a promise of "we'll put an urgent request on your file"....

Meanwhile OH has found me Steve Zanlunghi MD Fiat UK email & contact number along with that of Justin Westnedge the Customer Experience Manager....

So in a nutshell.....7 days on & certainly no further.....

Strongly looking at shifting this car quickly on following a temp fix & buy something a whole lot more reliable & pleasurable to own!!...

good idea. either that or spend up to 1500 pounds for a proper fix depending on what fiat say and keep the car = )

 

[sem973]

Day 8 with no answers.......

Woke up with a particular desire to rant!.....and have sent the following e-mail to Steve Zanlunghi & Justin Westnedge.....who knows if it will result in anything or if they will even read them but felt I needed to get it "off my chest"!...

Dear Sir

Firstly I apologise having to contact yourself direct but at present feel I have no option as current communication between myself and your Customer Services Team is wholly ineffective.

I unfortunately had the need arise to contact your Customer Services Team, as recommended by my local Fiat dealer, BS Marson of Newcastle, Staffordshire, where my Fiat 500 currently resides un-drivable, on Thursday, 7th May 2015. As required, a member of the team opened a "complaint case" and was informed a "senior case manager" would contact me within 24-48 hrs. I highlighted clearly to your team that I required a swift response as I am due to be out of the country this weekend and wished to communicate to my Fiat dealer the course of action required.

Despite numerous , multiple phone calls daily, by myself over the past 7 days, I am no further forward. At the beginning of the week I was informed my case had been assigned a "case manager" yet following several calls again yesterday I was now informed my case had yet to be assigned?.....clearly miscommunication or inadequate process systems are in use.

A brief history of my Fiat 500 1.2 Dualogic Pop's failure....

Bought new in 2010 from Hartwell Fiat, Chester (now Swansway)

Late March, the dualogic transmission had major issues in engaging gear and dropping into neutral whilst driving at all speeds, resulting in many roadside breakdowns which culminated in a near miss along a busy A-road near a bend as traffic approaching me behind could not clearly see I was stuck in a car which would simply not drive, as I hope you can appreciate, this was a terrifying experience for myself.

Car was picked up by BS Marsons early April and after a few days of testing stated a new battery was required and diagnostic testing. Later that week my car returned but less than 48 hrs later the problem reappeared, exactly the same as the original problem.

BS Marson's once again collected my car and declared a new dualogic gearbox was required at a hefty cost of £1300.

I am greatly disappointed that a 5 year old car with only 22,000 miles on the clock and FSH should be to this degree mechanically unsound. While I appreciate the 3 year warranty has passed, I cannot comprehend the reliability of a modern car to be compromised after a 5 year period.

Furthermore, I have discovered that my problem is not unique,while being a member of a motor forum and through internet related searches this failure of dualogic gearboxes is repeated throughout the UK and with members worldwide. I certainly did not view the investment in the car to be akin to a "disposable commodity" 5 years later.

The whole experience has distressed me greatly and destroyed my, and my family's faith in Fiat purchases for the future, despite previous Fiat ownership.

I look forward to your comments, firstly regarding your customer care infrastructure and Fiat's recognition of the problems existing with dualogic transmission.

Yours sincerely

 

[ahmett]

Day 8 with no answers.......

Woke up with a particular desire to rant!.....and have sent the following e-mail to Steve Zanlunghi & Justin Westnedge.....who knows if it will result in anything or if they will even read them but felt I needed to get it "off my chest"!...

Dear Sir

Firstly I apologise having to contact yourself direct but at present feel I have no option as current communication between myself and your Customer Services Team is wholly ineffective.

I unfortunately had the need arise to contact your Customer Services Team, as recommended by my local Fiat dealer, BS Marson of Newcastle, Staffordshire, where my Fiat 500 currently resides un-drivable, on Thursday, 7th May 2015. As required, a member of the team opened a "complaint case" and was informed a "senior case manager" would contact me within 24-48 hrs. I highlighted clearly to your team that I required a swift response as I am due to be out of the country this weekend and wished to communicate to my Fiat dealer the course of action required.

Despite numerous , multiple phone calls daily, by myself over the past 7 days, I am no further forward. At the beginning of the week I was informed my case had been assigned a "case manager" yet following several calls again yesterday I was now informed my case had yet to be assigned?.....clearly miscommunication or inadequate process systems are in use.

A brief history of my Fiat 500 1.2 Dualogic Pop's failure....

Bought new in 2010 from Hartwell Fiat, Chester (now Swansway)

Late March, the dualogic transmission had major issues in engaging gear and dropping into neutral whilst driving at all speeds, resulting in many roadside breakdowns which culminated in a near miss along a busy A-road near a bend as traffic approaching me behind could not clearly see I was stuck in a car which would simply not drive, as I hope you can appreciate, this was a terrifying experience for myself.

Car was picked up by BS Marsons early April and after a few days of testing stated a new battery was required and diagnostic testing. Later that week my car returned but less than 48 hrs later the problem reappeared, exactly the same as the original problem.

BS Marson's once again collected my car and declared a new dualogic gearbox was required at a hefty cost of £1300.

I am greatly disappointed that a 5 year old car with only 22,000 miles on the clock and FSH should be to this degree mechanically unsound. While I appreciate the 3 year warranty has passed, I cannot comprehend the reliability of a modern car to be compromised after a 5 year period.

Furthermore, I have discovered that my problem is not unique,while being a member of a motor forum and through internet related searches this failure of dualogic gearboxes is repeated throughout the UK and with members worldwide. I certainly did not view the investment in the car to be akin to a "disposable commodity" 5 years later.

The whole experience has distressed me greatly and destroyed my, and my family's faith in Fiat purchases for the future, despite previous Fiat ownership.

I look forward to your comments, firstly regarding your customer care infrastructure and Fiat's recognition of the problems existing with dualogic transmission.

Yours sincerely

forget it keep on calling them and post on their facebook page. keep on trolling them they'll eventually take you more seriously as their facebook page is very public and is negative publicity.

 

[UFI]

Strongly looking at shifting this car quickly on following a temp fix & buy something a whole lot more reliable & pleasurable to own!!...

Make sure you buy a manual. All robotised manuals have the same issues, Fiat, Renault, Citroen and if you Google you'll find plenty of conventional auto failures from BMW, Mercedes, Audi and so on. Manual gearbox issues are pretty rare on petrol cars by comparison. If you must have an auto, you'll have to go Japanese (or possibly a Euro with an Aisin transmission - if there is such a thing in the UK).

 

[ahmett]

Make sure you buy a manual. All robotised manuals have the same issues, Fiat, Renault, Citroen and if you Google you'll find plenty of conventional auto failures from BMW, Mercedes, Audi and so on. Manual gearbox issues are pretty rare on petrol cars by comparison. If you must have an auto, you'll have to go Japanese (or possibly a Euro with an Aisin transmission - if there is such a thing in the UK).

to be honest robotized manuals barely exist on the market anymore, which is one of the reasons i am very angry as to why fiat couldnt be bothered putting a dualclutch gearbox on the 500. its a joke. i was laughing when the salesman told me its because it is a low market car, the alfas are high market so have the DCT.

I think conventional modern autos are much more realiable than robotized manuals but of course still less reliable and more costly to fix than a conventional manual. The fiat tech who fixed my car told me so far no DCT's have failed on their new Alfas, but that if they do the repair cost is 3000 Euros.

 

[44sunsets]

I think conventional modern autos are much more realiable than robotized manuals but of course still less reliable and more costly to fix than a conventional manual.

The American 500 has a conventional auto gearbox so it's definitely something that's possible. I have no idea why FIAT are so keen on retaining the Dualogic/Selespeed

I bought a 3 year extended warranty through a 3rd party insurer (Swann) when I bought my 500C TwinAir Dualogic new -- that's 6 years of warranty in total. I'm guessing I'll probably have the chance to use it (or at least attempt to use it, depending on how sneaky they are when it comes to denying claims)... in any case, I'll most likely sell my car by the 5th year and will reassess the market then.

Mind you, I love my 500, but I dread the potential problems that may surface later

 

[zanes]

The American 500 has a conventional auto gearbox so it's definitely something that's possible. I have no idea why FIAT are so keen on retaining the Dualogic/Selespeed

CO2 g/km.

 

[ahmett]

The American 500 has a conventional auto gearbox so it's definitely something that's possible. I have no idea why FIAT are so keen on retaining the Dualogic/Selespeed

I bought a 3 year extended warranty through a 3rd party insurer (Swann) when I bought my 500C TwinAir Dualogic new. I'm guessing I'll probably have the chance to use it (or at least attempt to use it, depending on how sneaky they are when it comes to denying claims)...

oh and UFI the US spec Auto on the Fiat 500 is Aisin = ) They decided Magnetti Marelli's unreliability cannot be tolerated in the US. Haha no wonder they didn't introduce the Selespeed in the US, there the laws actually protect the consumer unlike backwards Europe = )

 

[ahmett]

CO2 g/km.

no its because US car market is more demanding than EU and the laws there are toughter. Also Fiat had a very bad reputation in the US and they knew that they cannot afford broken gearboxes like they get away with in Europe.

 

[44sunsets]

I think zanes is right, the Dualogic does give better fuel consumption figures as it is more efficient than a traditional torque converter automatic. The US doesn't have the same focus on green emission standards that Europe does.

 

[zanes]

no its because US car market is more demanding than EU and the laws there are toughter. Also Fiat had a very bad reputation in the US and they knew that they cannot afford broken gearboxes like they get away with in Europe.

If that were the sole reason we'd get the same conventional torque convertor boxes over here.

It would have been far cheaper for FIAT to adapt T/C boxes rather than develop selespeed/dualogic boxes.

I suspect the reason for not having dualogic in the states is also a little more complicated- yes, the americans would kick up a royal stink about reliability (although it's important to note that, generally, the dualogic in the 500 appears to have been fairly reliable with only a few failures cropping up now) but I suspect they wouldn't take well to the driving style of a roboticised manual (bear in mind the lions share of cars are T/C autos over there) and, as 44sunsets says, efficiency isn't such a large concern over there.

However, once again I appear to be dragging a topic off topic.

 

[ahmett]

If that were the sole reason we'd get the same conventional torque convertor boxes over here.

It would have been far cheaper for FIAT to adapt T/C boxes rather than develop selespeed/dualogic boxes.

I suspect the reason for not having dualogic in the states is also a little more complicated- yes, the americans would kick up a royal stink about reliability (although it's important to note that, generally, the dualogic in the 500 appears to have been fairly reliable with only a few failures cropping up now) but I suspect they wouldn't take well to the driving style of a roboticised manual (bear in mind the lions share of cars are T/C autos over there) and, as 44sunsets says, efficiency isn't such a large concern over there.

However, once again I appear to be dragging a topic off topic.

not true. Fiat developed the selespeed gearbox originally for the Ferrari 355 F1 in like 1995 or so , to show F1 technology in their supercars. And after that they just trickled it on down to cheaper Alfas and Fiats, while barely spending any money on development in the mean time.

So the 2015 Fiat 500 Dualogic has essentially the 1995 Ferrari 355 F1 system. 20 year old technology with barely any development.

 

[sem973]

Today's final update....l

Several phone calls later again today I finally get a call from case manager at "customer services"....they had spoken to my dealer to get part codes & prices, which dealer had previously done..... which included £900 for parts....

Fiat stated the prices were incorrect as the part alone is now........£2000 ....

Very helpful guy at dealer (Olly @ BA Marson) rang & said no way Jose....politely.....

Spoke to a very helpful Justin Westnedge who had recieved the above email & took my concerns seriously adding he had forwarded it to Fiat HQ in Italy.

I so appreciate that the car is out of warranty but would like them to at least acknowledge the fault & reliability of their product as a consquence...

Meanwhile...am now on the brink of patch & get rid ......Ciao Fiat!

 

[ahmett]

Today's final update....l

Several phone calls later again today I finally get a call from case manager at "customer services"....they had spoken to my dealer to get part codes & prices, which dealer had previously done..... which included £900 for parts....

Fiat stated the prices were incorrect as the part alone is now........£2000 ....

Very helpful guy at dealer (Olly @ BA Marson) rang & said no way Jose....politely.....

Spoke to a very helpful Justin Westnedge who had recieved the above email & took my concerns seriously adding he had forwarded it to Fiat HQ in Italy.

I so appreciate that the car is out of warranty but would like them to at least acknowledge the fault & reliability of their product as a consquence...

Meanwhile...am now on the brink of patch & get rid ......Ciao Fiat!

2000 GBP!? Crazy. Did you ask them what parts are costing that much? Don't tell me they are replacing the dualogic + the ecu of the dualogic?
Something sounds very wrong as the actuator is much less than 2000 pounds.

 

[UFI]

but I suspect they wouldn't take well to the driving style of a roboticised manual (bear in mind the lions share of cars are T/C autos over there) and, as 44sunsets says, efficiency isn't such a large concern over there.

I think Fiat are actually on the record with this as the reason for fitting an Aisin to the NAFTA cars. The new model is supposed to standardize the 500 worldwide so it will be interesting to see what 'auto' the Euros get.