Still think the 128 was unbeatable for ragging around, and, if you wanted to get rear wheel drive like oversteer, the 128 estate/panorama was the one to go forI used to love the old Unos for belting around the B roads. I never spent more than £300 on them and they just loved to be thrashed.
Do you actually want to drive a crossover / SUV?
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Do you actually want to drive a crossover / SUV?
Oddly, I passed a new astra (while stuck in traffic last night). The wingmirror of the DS4 sits almost completely under the astra wingmirror, and I thought the DS4 was a high sitting car.
And just to reinforce that, the car in front of the astra was an 2005 laguna, and it's wingmirrors would fit below the DS4 mirrors!
Then just to rub it in, there was an old H-reg honda CRX further along the road, it looked good next to all the boxy new cars.
I'm confused has your suspension collapsed?
It's more likely the belt line of the astra has risen re. Safety...but in terms of overall height you seem regularly convinced your car is lower than when measured it is meant to be. Also note the mirrors on the Astra are at the A post...not halfway down the door..
However compared to previous one it has indeed got lower. Although part of the looking lower will be it is wider.
With less rear leg room despite being longer... because well a Grandlands more profitable innit?
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You could, but they don't seem to like to answer for much. More interested in making big headline changes, fining big companies from other continents to keep the payroll healthy, and all... It's sad that we tend to mirror most of their rules though, particularly with car regulations :-(
There was a kid at my last school in NI (sixth form) who drove a tractor to school because he was into farming, lived in a rural area but not on a farm / no farming family. Parents bought him a tractor to drive to school. I think there's some law that lets slightly younger people drive them on the road... Was bizarre to see along a line of various first-cars and teacher cars!
When I was at school another kid in my year who was about the oldest got a brand new Lambretta scooter as his parents were well off, shortly he passed his test and rode up on a Triumph Tiger 90 along with brand new leathers, motor bike boots and turned down white socks, everyone was jealous, shortly after leaving school I saw him with a broken neck in plaster, no one was jealous then
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Money can't buy skill!When I was at school another kid in my year who was about the oldest got a brand new Lambretta scooter as his parents were well off, shortly he passed his test and rode up on a Triumph Tiger 90 along with brand new leathers, motor bike boots and turned down white socks, everyone was jealous, shortly after leaving school I saw him with a broken neck in plaster, no one was jealous then
Gosh I can still remember being so envious of some of my peers who had near-new Corsa limited editions, custom reg's and such! As first cars. One had a new Focus, but it was incredibly basic compared to one my friend up the street had, was missing all sorts of buttons / dials on the dash and had no raised centre console.. that's the day I learnt the value of 'spec' / 'trim' levels on cars.
Now that I drive a baby Lexus... I still feel the envy when I see a Panda drive down the road. So much simpler, fun motoring! Higher chance the Panda drivers are smiling as well. They're such bright, happy looking cars. Truly stand out from the rest. Just since my last reply... walked down the quay at lunch and a red one drove by. My friends are sick of me pointing out every single one that rolls by!
I have wondered that before, it does sit much nicer than other DS4s I've seen on the road.
14 and 16 depending on use, road and a whole lot of other things that vary from regulation to best practice
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I'm split on them for the most part... Though I was quite chuffed today to read that Uber was fined by them for breaking data protection rules. There are definitely areas they are ahead on and smart about. Nothing is black and white I suppose!
The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
Oddly my sister in law raised some issues directly with them regarding rules around book publishing. They were very easy to deal with and helpful and the law was changed to put right a wrong after a short review. So a long way from all bad. We were all staggered that a group of 6 women could alter EU law so easily.
I have one for two reasons.
1. When I had an older caravan it was a lot lighter and smaller and was easily towed with my 240 estate. Since getting a more modern caravan it is a lot heavier and wider and needs a good weight of vehicle to tow it.
2/ Since my wife injured her neck in 2019 an SUV has been a godsend allowing her to get in and out a lot easier than a car/estate.
We do have normal cars in the family, including the Punto which is my wife's car but rarely is used due to her access abilities.
1. When I had an older caravan it was a lot lighter and smaller and was easily towed with my 240 estate. Since getting a more modern caravan it is a lot heavier and wider and needs a good weight of vehicle to tow it.
2/ Since my wife injured her neck in 2019 an SUV has been a godsend allowing her to get in and out a lot easier than a car/estate.
We do have normal cars in the family, including the Punto which is my wife's car but rarely is used due to her access abilities.
Yes, we both now have developing mobility issues, not too bad yet but going to get worse as we age. The Panda is one of the best cars we use for access due to the wide opening doors and tall profile of the body. The new Scala is pretty good except it has quite a high door sill which makes swinging your feet over it more difficult than the Panda.
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This is what I hear from much of my older relatives as well. Even some who went from a life of nice, big BMW after Merc after BMW, to some form of city car in retirement. The reason, easier to get in and out of. Only one bought one of those hideous, 2-Series and then a B-Class Merc which I suppose was probably also 'easy enough' to board.
I have no mobility issues (yet) (thankfully) at 28, but I find the Lexus CT a right pain in the *** to get in and out of with the stupidly long front door in car parks... requires a weird sort of twist and arm to hold the door from hitting anything. Then the seat bolsters are incredibly stiff and don't give way for sliding past them. Recently seen a tear down... they literally have a metal support inside them like a cupboard handle to achieve that. No wonder it hurts!!!
The Panda, in contrast, is just 'Easy' (I can see where the design ethos / design teams logic came from in naming the trim levels). Tall, doors open wide, square edges to fit everything (even tall people), gear stick up within easy reach. Pedal position / tightness might be the exception, the few people I let drive my Panda's were mostly shocked by that in the first few minutes, but something you get used to quickly.
I was out scanning trouble codes on my sisters 2016 Suzuki Vitara 4x4 last week and was shocked by how much of a Panda like experience it was to sit in. Same sort of proportions and 'roominess' feeling. It's quite narrow compared to what I expected, and other than the tall roof and space, you don't feel like you're that 'high up', the big windows and airy feel give an illusion of size, which is strangely opposite to how 'spacious' the Avensis I had felt, that had plenty of room length and width wise, space for everything, little compartments, but the roof line was (relatively) low. I'd argue the saloon is more practical from a passenger comfort point of view, not so much fitting things in the boot (the opposite of practical on the saloon).
The Vitara was a bit disappointing with the handling or lack of. Not terrible or dangerous feeling but just not something I'd choose over the likes of a large saloon or even hatchback like the Panda (or more sensible cars like a Focus size). Practical, but with some comfort.
These SUVs don't seem to be much bigger footprint on the road size-by-size, they don't feel like they offer much improvement inside practically and they don't drive any better than lower cars. I really, really don't get it.
Still, Lexus like the rest of them insists on going all SUV (and at a cost that I'll likely never be able to justify). Fiat (Stellantis) seem awfully committed to city cars, even if they are a size too big from ideal size now.. the sales of the C3 / Corsa should guarantee they don't go away even if they keep killing other car size segments.
Let's hope they keep the B-segment Grande Panda 'easy' to get in to. But from the photos... it's also exhibiting signs of being a little too tall for the narrowness and trying to look like an SUV :-(
Erm...
Here's a breakdown of the size difference, it ranges from barely taller to the old one to shorter than old one depending on if the old one was a raised height model.
However it is wider with a longer wheelbase.
So if anything it's old one that was a bit tall and skinny.
Fiat Grande Panda versus Panda: What exactly changes
An initial comparison between the new Fiat Grande Panda and the Panda. The two faces of the Italian city car that is now a little more SUV and also electric.
uk.motor1.com
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Yes... but that was a city car done on a budget, we can't cry about the leaning / handling being 'Italian' (in fact, it's quite the feature).
When I'm paying 30k+ for what handles like a bath tub, marketed as 'premium', 'suv', 'crossover' I expect better.
Most sources seem to suggest you won't be paying 30k for it...maybe 25, possibly 15 for one with a petrol engine, given the larger Vauxhall Frontera is confirmed at 23k either electric or hybrid 30k+ would be very unlikely indeed. You can pick up the none budget 600 for less than that.
Also experience suggests when faced with the opportunity to buy a Panda..you don't
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I was referring to crossovers / SUVs at large, not the Grande Panda. I was making the point I hope the Grande Panda doesn't suffer from the same sort of over sized.. big empty box that leans like the likes of the Vitara or Grandland are - despite SUV looks.
Irrelevant.Also experience suggests when faced with the opportunity to buy a Panda..you don't
I think what the "rise" of the SUV probably demonstrates more than anything is the majority people don't particularly care how a car drives as long as it's not actively offensive or dangerous.
It's all very well saying it should be fun to chuck around but what they tend to be for is loading up with people and things and travelling. Which big squishy boxes tend to be better at.
I had the Mazda which was great fun to drive hard, but as family car..erm it was also firm, quite noisy at the cruise and required the engine ringing out to 6k rpm to get the best from it. These properties made it actually a reasonably exhausting long distance travel companion at a cruise on the motorway the sporty set up wasn't great...on a twisting back road you could have fun but your passengers wouldn't be.
Current car is pretty terrible at driving dynamics... absolutely excellent at cruising about with people and things on board though because it's not too firm, it's not on large sports tyres with low profile and it doesn't have a close ratio gearbox for more fun.
Literally a case of if you're buying an SUV you probably aren't about to launch it at a back road at vmax so as long as it's not tipping on it's side, uncomfortable or ridiculously slow it's doing what you bought it for. Of course more expensive sports wellington SUVs with adaptive suspension do both...but these do feel slightly like the answer to question no one asked.
It's all very well saying it should be fun to chuck around but what they tend to be for is loading up with people and things and travelling. Which big squishy boxes tend to be better at.
I had the Mazda which was great fun to drive hard, but as family car..erm it was also firm, quite noisy at the cruise and required the engine ringing out to 6k rpm to get the best from it. These properties made it actually a reasonably exhausting long distance travel companion at a cruise on the motorway the sporty set up wasn't great...on a twisting back road you could have fun but your passengers wouldn't be.
Current car is pretty terrible at driving dynamics... absolutely excellent at cruising about with people and things on board though because it's not too firm, it's not on large sports tyres with low profile and it doesn't have a close ratio gearbox for more fun.
Literally a case of if you're buying an SUV you probably aren't about to launch it at a back road at vmax so as long as it's not tipping on it's side, uncomfortable or ridiculously slow it's doing what you bought it for. Of course more expensive sports wellington SUVs with adaptive suspension do both...but these do feel slightly like the answer to question no one asked.
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I like that, it’s definitely an answer to a question never asked, but then we got the Range Rover and, slowly but surely, everyone wanted a slice of its market…admittedly at the top end…then we got the import of all those Willys Jeep based vehicles, such as SJs, Toyota etc etc from which we got the ‘smaller nicer trimmed’ car like SUVs. There’s also the ‘I feel safer in n a tall car’ brigade and, like topsy, everything has got bigger
