Do you actually want to drive a crossover / SUV?

[SB1500]

We're being told that consumers want crossovers / SUVs and because of that... we're seeing beloved city cars get the axe. No more large saloons. Everything seems to be getting bigger, heavier, bulkier and thirstier for energy. Despite all of our efforts to be more economical of the last 25+ years of car evolution.

But do you actually want a crossover / SUV?

And why / why not?

 

[bugsymike]

I suspect it is so manufacturers can attempt to justify the price, give you something big and bulky, so you feel you are getting something for all that money.
Plus it is easier to hide EV batteries
Mind you , it could be due to us all getting fatter so need a large seat for a lard ar*e

 

[rmjbn1]

I read in Motorsport magazine when Ford axed the Fiesta, although it was still selling well they were making more money from LEGO licenses!

So shift the Focus (heh) to bigger profit models.

I'm a rustic simpleton, my driving is bouncing around country lanes, smaller and lighter and funner is better for me

 

[StevenRB45]

Given the SUV/Crossover these days occupies a cursed space between the traditional estate car and the MPV I suppose the question is has anyone ever WANTED a car like that.

I'd imagine very few people have lusted after a Renault Espace or boggo estate car. People do however buy cars like that because they need them for whatever reason.

There are of course different flavours what I would term a "proper" SUV i.e. a Range Rover or something like that..very few people actually need these they are a status symbol in the main. Then you have the next size down generally 2 wheel drive and filled with children's car seats, these are the MPVs of the modern era, unfortunately given you aren't allowed to load 6 kids into the back of a rusty Vauxhall Astra as was de rigueur when I was growing up you may need something that can take multiple car seats and this is where you end up. There are also have the miserable little things such as the Seat Arona and the Puma which are entirely wastes of the earths resources...this is the joy of everything being an SUV/Crossover these days when you SUV you're talking about at least 3 or 4 classes of car. In small small cars they do at least allow space for batteries under the floor.

Are any of them desirable? Not to me...for the same reason I don't desire a comfortable pair of sensible shoes...but some of them have purpose. The vast majority don't seem to to me but hey I missed the boat there clearly as when my son arrived rather than getting a Range Rover Evoque (because hey it snows don't you know????) on finance we downsized once the difficult phase was over.

The difficult phase being for those not aware of modern children there is a phase where for some reason you need to pack everything required to recreate the child's bedroom into the boot of your car along with most of their wardrobe...just in case and a Pram (at least in my experience).

Why people without kids saddle themselves with these things I've got no bloody clue..

 

[bugsymike]

Given the SUV/Crossover these days occupies a cursed space between the traditional estate car and the MPV I suppose the question is has anyone ever WANTED a car like that.

I'd imagine very few people have lusted after a Renault Espace or boggo estate car. People do however buy cars like that because they need them for whatever reason.

There are of course different flavours what I would term a "proper" SUV i.e. a Range Rover or something like that..very few people actually need these they are a status symbol in the main. Then you have the next size down generally 2 wheel drive and filled with children's car seats, these are the MPVs of the modern era, unfortunately given you aren't allowed to load 6 kids into the back of a rusty Vauxhall Astra as was de rigueur when I was growing up unfortunately you may need something that can take multiple car seats and this is where you end up. There are also have the miserable little things such as the Seat Arona and the Puma which are entirely wastes of the earths resources...this is the joy of everything being an SUV/Crossover these days when you SUV you're talking about at least 3 or 4 classes of car. In small small cars they do at least allow space for batteries under the floor.

Are any of them desirable? Not to me...for the same reason I don't desire a comfortable pair of sensible shoes...but some of them have purpose. The vast majority don't seem to to me but hey I missed the boat there clearly as when my son arrived rather than getting a Range Rover Evoque (because hey it snows don't you know????) on finance we downsized once the difficult phase was over.

The difficult phase being for those not aware of modern children there is a phase where for some reason you need to pack everything required to recreate the child's bedroom into the boot of your car along with most of their wardrobe...just in case and a Pram (at least in my experience).

Why people without kids saddle themselves with these things I've got no bloody clue..

Probably due to the high driving position gives them a feeling of superiority looking down on the peasants
When my children were young the 8 seater 504/505 Peugeot estates made good sense.
I have an old Skoda Scout 4x4 basically the estate Octavia and until recently one of my daughters had a VW Tiguan with the same running gear, yet my old estate had much more room overall.
It's like the VW Sharan, another daughters partner had one and when they were moving we needed to get all the white goods in, no chance and yet my old Fiat Doblo though physically smaller took the lot

 

[StevenRB45]

Probably due to the high driving position gives them a feeling of superiority looking down on the peasants
When my children were young the 8 seater 504/505 Peugeot estates made good sense.
I have an old Skoda Scout 4x4 basically the estate Octavia and until recently one of my daughters had a VW Tiguan with the same running gear, yet my old estate had much more room overall.
It's like the VW Sharan, another daughters partner had one and when they were moving we needed to get all the white goods in, no chance and yet my old Fiat Doblo though physically smaller took the lot

I've been car shopping of late...taking in various options.

What is inescapable in most cases is that SUV replacement of a people carrier is not as good if you want a useful car. So Citroën Picasso was replaced by C5 Aircross. The C5 has a smaller boot, is heavier, is physically larger. Both have 3 full width seats in the rear (a rarity in cars these days) both have 3 isofix points, but the C5 Aircross is no more useful than the C3 in that respect in that the 3rd isofix point is in the front passenger seat while the Picasso allowed 3 child seats in the rear with isofix.

What has to be said is both are far more practical than a good chunk of the SUVs that are out there.

Seven seat estates just plain don't exist..and neither do estates with 3 full width rear seats now.

 

[bugsymike]

I've been car shopping of late...taking in various options.

What is inescapable in most cases is that SUV replacement of a people carrier is not as good if you want a useful car. So Citroën Picasso was replaced by C5 Aircross. The C5 has a smaller boot, is heavier, is physically larger. Both have 3 full width seats in the rear (a rarity in cars these days) both have 3 isofix points, but the C5 Aircross is no more useful than the C3 in that respect in that the 3rd isofix point is in the front passenger seat while the Picasso allowed 3 child seats in the rear with isofix.

What has to be said is both are far more practical than a good chunk of the SUVs that are out there.

Seven seat estates just plain don't exist..and neither do estates with 3 full width rear seats now.

Strangely enough that Doblo was a seven seater, although adults were not happy in the back, isofix would be impossible I should imagine. Volvo used to do some, but I was never happy with the rear facing arrangement.
When my five were young it was in the days of individual child straps/harnesses that I had to fit to original seat belt mounts, it was some time ago as the two youngest have just had the 33rd birthday

 

[StevenRB45]

Strangely enough that Doblo was a seven seater, although adults were not happy in the back, isofix would be impossible I should imagine. Volvo used to do some, but I was never happy with the rear facing arrangement.
When my five were young it was in the days of individual child straps/harnesses that I had to fit to original seat belt mounts, it was some time ago as the two youngest have just had the 33rd birthday

You can still get an equivalent of the Dobbin in the Berlingo/Rifter etc. although Stellantis/PSA were a massive outlier in persisting with MPVs as long as they did.

 

[bugsymike]

You can still get an equivalent of the Dobbin in the Berlingo/Rifter etc. although Stellantis/PSA were a massive outlier in persisting with MPVs as long as they did.

Never going to buy new or nearly new, the 5 vehicles I have at the moment cost less to buy than the depreciation in the first year almost.
I work on the never spend more than you can afford to throw away motto

 

[StevenRB45]

I work on the never spend more than you can afford to throw away motto

Some say if you spend a bit more you're less likely to need to throw it away... although in terms of what I'm looking at I'm looking at cars that are 5-7 years old so done at least 50% of their depreciation but new enough that they can be warrantied.

Also old enough that if a child were to mess the thing up it doesn't particularly matter, not exactly throw away money but if needed could sod it off without causing undue concern level.

Sometimes rather than one daily and 4 spares just in case they act their age...one reliable car is preferable.

 

[bugsymike]

Some say if you spend a bit more you're less likely to need to throw it away... although in terms of what I'm looking at I'm looking at cars that are 5-7 years old so done at least 50% of their depreciation but new enough that they can be warrantied.

Also old enough that if a child were to mess the thing up it doesn't particularly matter, not exactly throw away money but if needed could sod it off without causing undue concern level.

Sometimes rather than one daily and 4 spares just in case they act their age...one reliable car is preferable.

"Horses for courses" as they say
Mind you I have had customers who bought from dealers for shed loads of money without me inspecting first and had loads of grief.
I agree about buying after the first bit of depreciation though.
I have three on the road to swap around at present , Doblo van if my children want anything messy moved, Scudo 8 seater for no particular reason and the Skoda as a nice comfortable ride. The other two are resting at present.
It was easier when I had my Motortrade policy, but after all those years I just can't stop playing with cars, so usually pick them up fairly cheap to fix, but still end up selling for a loss or hanging on to them for too long.

 

[StevenRB45]

We're aiming for 2...

The Supermini shall stay for commuting and other child free business because it's small and economical.

Car 2 will be either an estate or an MPV/Crossover/SUV..hence my considerations on this topic. This will have all the Child paraphernalia in it... and should only be used for trips out and holidays.

We'll see how that goes...as don't particularly fancy commuting one up in a medium family car when I don't have to.

But both cars need to be reliable and on the button most of the time.

I do hope I can get away with an Estate...or can find a nice Picasso as with both being deeply unfashionable due to the SUV boom both are cheaper than the SUV equivalent.

 

[porta]

I voted ‘other’ as, being a farmer and, naturally, living in a rural area, we need them…but, aside from the practical reasons of 4x4, off-road use especially with trailers, we have them to suit the use, Jeep for big stuff, panda for the little stuff and dodging around

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I hadn't really looked at newer cars for some time before buying the Scala back at the spring of this year. I like estates and have owned nothing else for many years. The one I was replacing was an Ibiza estate so not a voluminous load carrier but surprisingly spacious. Because there are so few small estates these days I started looking at small SUVs. A friend gave me a lift in his Renault Captur and it quite impressed me. I'm not so keen on quite a few things about Renault though, so although a test drive in the newest version went well I decided against it and, a few abortive drives in other makes later, I went back to looking at VAG stuff. The Arona was a possibility but it's load area is less usable than the old Ibiza estate's was - not so long, just higher. i also didn't like that there was no possibility of getting a spare in. The Kamiq nearly seduced me until I had a good crawl around a Scala. Very slightly bigger than the Ibiza estate outside but oh so much more useable room inside which is needed with growing grandchildren - back seat area is positively cavernous. With the back seats down there's actually slightly more room than in the Ibiza (they call the Scala a hatch but actually it looks more like a traditional estate) and with the seats up again, there's slightly more room too. Win, win all round. Having owned it for some 6 months now it's confirmed for me that I prefer a traditional estate type body. Only thing that annoys me is when one of these large SUV things draws up alongside at a junction so you can't see over it as to what's coming from that side. So, no. SUV? Not for me thanks.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I hadn't really looked at newer cars for some time before buying the Scala back at the spring of this year. I like estates and have owned nothing else for many years. The one I was replacing was an Ibiza estate so not a voluminous load carrier but surprisingly spacious. Because there are so few small estates these days I started looking at small SUVs. A friend gave me a lift in his Renault Captur and it quite impressed me. I'm not so keen on quite a few things about Renault though, so although a test drive in the newest version went well I decided against it and, a few abortive drives in other makes later, I went back to looking at VAG stuff. The Arona was a possibility but it's load area is less usable than the old Ibiza estate's was - not so long, just higher. i also didn't like that there was no possibility of getting a spare in. The Kamiq nearly seduced me until I had a good crawl around a Scala. Very slightly bigger than the Ibiza estate outside but oh so much more useable room inside which is needed with growing grandchildren - back seat area is positively cavernous. With the back seats down there's actually slightly more room than in the Ibiza (they call the Scala a hatch but actually it looks more like a traditional estate) and with the seats up again, there's slightly more room too. Win, win all round. Having owned it for some 6 months now it's confirmed for me that I prefer a traditional estate type body. Only thing that annoys me is when one of these large SUV things draws up alongside at a junction so you can't see over it as to what's coming from that side. So, no. SUV? Not for me thanks.

I mentioned the Kamiq above but that I preferred the more traditional layout of the Scala. An indication of the love affair the public have with SUV type things though is that, I believe, they sell 3 Kamiqs for every Scala! Mechanically identical, even, I believe, down to the platform on which they are built and share many other parts so, as she ages, certain Scala body panels may become less available but the rest should be easy enough to procure.

 

[vexorg]

I would say it applies to oldies as much as families now. My wife has hip/knee problems and a higher car is much easier to get in and out of.

We've had 4x4/suv type for the last 15+ years. It started with the kia sedona, which was a great car, so easy to drive and park for a very big car. After that, the height was nicer for driving (not just to look down on people).

My preference is a low car, because i can still get in and out then (maybe not the Elise, that's not dignified for taller people), but can see why the suv is so common.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I would say it applies to oldies as much as families now. My wife has hip/knee problems and a higher car is much easier to get in and out of.

We've had 4x4/suv type for the last 15+ years. It started with the kia sedona, which was a great car, so easy to drive and park for a very big car. After that, the height was nicer for driving (not just to look down on people).

My preference is a low car, because i can still get in and out then (maybe not the Elise, that's not dignified for taller people), but can see why the suv is so common.

You make a very good point there. Mrs J has a number of medical ailments including disc problems and now me with my hip to say nothing of historic back/spinal problems and that's one of the factors why we both like the Panda so much. It's quite high and so easy to get in and out of.

The Scala has very good ground clearance:

Sill height is not far off being level with the wheel centres. Compare with the black Merc parked behind her at the kerbside. Perhaps because it shares it's platform with the Kamiq SUV? and so is similarly easy to get in and out of. One of the first things she commented on when we went to try it out - We'd driven there in the Ibiza. The doors open really wide too which, coupled to the extra height, makes strapping grandchildren into back seats really easy. You don't really notice it when driving, it doesn't make the car any more unstable or subject to wind blowing you off course.

 

[The Panda Nut]

You make a very good point there. Mrs J has a number of medical ailments including disc problems and now me with my hip to say nothing of historic back/spinal problems and that's one of the factors why we both like the Panda so much. It's quite high and so easy to get in and out of.

The Scala has very good ground clearance:

View attachment 450969

Sill height is not far off being level with the wheel centres. Compare with the black Merc parked behind her at the kerbside. Perhaps because it shares it's platform with the Kamiq SUV? and so is similarly easy to get in and out of. One of the first things she commented on when we went to try it out - We'd driven there in the Ibiza. The doors open really wide too which, coupled to the extra height, makes strapping grandchildren into back seats really easy. You don't really notice it when driving, it doesn't make the car any more unstable or subject to wind blowing you off course.

Ha, its still NO PANDA though! LOL

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Ha, its still NO PANDA though! LOL

Indeed it's not and I'd go for the Panda around town every time. The Scala's much better out on the open road though.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Indeed it's not and I'd go for the Panda around town every time. The Scala's much better out on the open road though.

Ive definitely reached my sell by date a bit early. I have a disc issue, wobbly knees and often can barely get into / out of the car. The Panda 4x4 is as good as it gets to get in and out of and I will miss it when it goes and cannot be replaced. Long live the low roof rails which are great hand holds! I find Pandas OK on long trips quite suprisingly even thoiugh others complain about the seats. I can drive or reverse into the garage and get out and open the tailgate too. I dont think many new cars (SUV types) would do that. Ditto parking in Tesco's silly 'spaces'.

The passing of small cars is something that belies common sense when we should be trying to be more economical in all things. There are many who need the space for carrying people and stuff and big is beatiful. For the rest of us who dont need a vast car, being forced by car makers, who have absolutley no environmental credentials or care, to go big, is plain unethical on their part and very irritating. Maybe I should make this point to the EU Comission who over see the rules, and who are actually also quite receptive to sensible suggestions for change. If they want to ababdon the small car then they should be compelled to support them for much longer with spares etc too.