Technical Clutch Master Cylinder Replacement

[jrkitching]

According to my dad, any car, even a new one will need a clutch eventually and since its a friction wearing part I suppose its not too unheard of.

Driving style has a lot to do with it - I've not needed to replace a clutch in any of my cars since 1989; I kept two of them for well over 100,000 miles and one for well over 200,000.

OTOH, TopGear's Liana (star in a reasonably priced car) went through 400 tyres; its brakes were changed 100 times; and it required six new clutches, two new hubs, driveshafts, wishbones, struts and gear linkages and a replacement wing mirror .

 

[DaveMcT]

Its best to buy the gearbox bearings when you have the old parts out of the box. Then you can be sure of getting the correct version. The bearing factors will offer various options and most likely have them in stock they are a common size.

Being a biker I learned to match revs from day one, but my clutches all seem to go at about 80K. Bikes don't have synchromesh and crash badly if you don't shift correctly (but you can shift smoothly and very quickly without the clutch).

 

[SB1500]

Driving style has a lot to do with it - I've not needed to replace a clutch in any of my cars since 1989; I kept two of them for well over 100,000 miles and one for well over 200,000.

OTOH, TopGear's Liana (star in a reasonably priced car) went through 400 tyres; its brakes were changed 100 times; and it required six new clutches, two new hubs, driveshafts, wishbones, struts and gear linkages and a replacement wing mirror .

Mad that, about Top Gear!!! So that's what the license fee gets spent on, still, that was the only show I think was worth the money! (probably the only one that generated anything back too! haha) apologies.

Although I've had my license for around 2 years now, and a claim and a dent (not claiming to be the best driver) but I am very respectful and gentle on the Panda since it's my responsibility, and I love the fact its my very own, quite unique little Italian car. Now, my granny drove it for years since it was 2 years old, I doubt it got past 40 much lol My sister owned it from 2013-15 and she is notorious for destroying cars due to trusting a crappy mechanic and being careless. A friend even remarked to me about how she drove the Panda out the street (like some sort of Land Rover) she also drove a Mitsubishi Shogun 2.5 her bf drove not long before the Panda so maybe it was her who ruined the clutch?! In my defence, I've had it since October and since then have only stalled it about 10 times max!

I'm very interested now in this 'AP' kit and hope it lasts longer than the OEM (Valeo?) part.

Its best to buy the gearbox bearings when you have the old parts out of the box. Then you can be sure of getting the correct version. The bearing factors will offer various options and most likely have them in stock they are a common size.

Being a biker I learned to match revs from day one, but my clutches all seem to go at about 80K. Bikes don't have synchromesh and crash badly if you don't shift correctly (but you can shift smoothly and very quickly without the clutch).

I'll look for a suitable part, unless you can link me to one? What difference will this make in general to the driving experience? Or is this a part that simply works behind the scenes to keep it all right?

Perhaps when the mechanic takes to the job, if I specify I NEED that part be replaced he can get it? Even though we're in rural Northern Ireland and Fiats aren't the most common car - hopefully local motor factors will have it?

People have told me its the synchromesh on my gears causing the reverse to crunch, sure enough, if I pull up the syringe mechanism, slowly, push it toward the RIGHT, and slowly toward the 'R' it'll go in quietly. If the window is open you still hear it 'click' in even smoothly. Otherwise it's a horrible machinery 'grind' I mention a lot.

Hoping if I get this master cylinder and new clutch (and bearing I'm learning about here) then that'll get to the bottom of it?!

Knowing my luck, I do all this.. mechanic says the gear box has some sort of irreparable damage.. goodbye £1500+ I've spent since October on this car.. hello crappy used Corsa or something :bang: Hence why I'm always looking to keep the Panda in good shape - to avoid future 'you should have fixed that back in XYZ' damage :thumbs:


Thanks again guys, always enjoy reading your replies. Love Fiat Forum, probably why I love this car so much. When I had a Corsa and tried a few of those forums it was literally full of spanners who only knew how to weld exhaust tips on

 

[jrkitching]

goodbye £1500+ I've spent since October on this car..

That's the thing. You can run a brand new car for less than that if you service it yourself and keep it until it becomes uneconomic.

SB1500, I've been where you are - for the first ten years or so, I ran a series of old (>8yrs) cars; they were never particularly reliable or dependable, and every month or two I'd be underneath them dealing with some fault or other. They cost me at least the equivalent in repairs of what you're spending now, and that's doing all the work myself.

Once I could afford it, I bought a basic but new car for £5600. I kept it for 13 years/220000 miles, apart from service parts, it cost me less than £1000 in total in repairs. I sold it at the end for £500.

The current Panda was bought new in 2010 for £6600. It's now 6yrs old and has done 70k. Apart from service parts, thus far it's cost me precisely nothing. I've no plans to sell it, but even if I just gave it away tomorrow, that's only £1100/yr in depreciation.

There comes a point in a car's life when it will cost you more to keep it than it would cost just to throw it away and start again; that point depends on many things, but one of the biggest costs of keeping an older car will be someone else's labour if you don't service and repair it yourself.

I realise not everyone can afford the price of even a basic new car; when I was a student, it was so far out of reach as to be unimaginable. Running an older car out of necessity taught me a lot; the skills I learned then are the same skills you are learning now, and will help you keep down the cost of motoring for the rest of your life .

I reckon any competent DIY mechanic buying a new car and keeping it for its economic life could run it (excluding fuel and insurance) for about half what folks who trade in every three years are paying. Running an older car and giving it to the garage each time it needs attention could easily cost you double, which explains why many folks just keep taking out a new pcp every three years or so.

 

[portland_bill]

People have told me its the synchromesh on my gears causing the reverse to crunch, sure enough, if I pull up the syringe mechanism, slowly, push it toward the RIGHT, and slowly toward the 'R' it'll go in quietly. If the window is open you still hear it 'click' in even smoothly. Otherwise it's a horrible machinery 'grind' I mention a lot.

Do not listen to those people, they know nothing.

Reverse gear does not have synchromesh, except on some very exotic vehicles. (I think Ferrari did many years ago)

Reverse gear has to slide an extra gear into the train to give the required opposite drive direction. All three gears need to be stationary when this happens, or you get a crunch. If you try to select reverse too quickly after depressing the clutch, the input shaft may still be spinning, so you get a crunch. Similarly, if the clutch is not disengaging fully, giving a bit of drag, like you holding it on the bite point, then you get a nasty crunch. This symptom fits with a hydraulic issue, as well as a worn clutch, but more likely the hydraulic issue.

Replace the master cylinder before planning anything more major.

 

[SB1500]

jrkitching I wish I could afford a nearly new car but unless it's an Alto or something I couldn't stretch to more than 3k and even then there's probably 'better' things I could spend it on. I'm saving up 10,000 for a house deposit during uni through working and saving some student money. I don't drink etc or buy much in general. I'm told this is a better thing to part 10k on - despite the fact I could get one awesome used Fiat for that!!!

I plan on servicing it myself or with my uncle as much as we can. Still need to ask him if we could do the clutch but I don't expect we can.
portland_bill I hope so. Although right now I'm literally prepared to spend on the clutch, but I'm taking your advice of fixing one thing first then at least I have some insight as to what could be next.

It's so hard too as ECP has its 30% off today only! But it's not to say the clutch is too much in general

 

[SB1500]

Urgent, how do we get this off now it's under the battery side. portland_bill @varescrazy jrkitching any ideas were out here now don't want to break it

 

[portland_bill]

Sorry, been out all day.
Can't see exactly what we're looking at here, but assume its part of the clutch pipe. Can't look at the car, as its away being painted.
I didn't change my pipe, left the old one on. The 500 master cylinder is the same, but comes without the pipe. I'd detach the new pipe from the new cylinder and use the old one, leaving it undisturbed.

 

[SB1500]

portland_bill

No worries, I'm about to make a new thread detailing all our discoveries and next plan now , as well as a video for anyone to analyse. Hope you take a look either now or whenever you have time - non urgent - we got the pipe off and on there.

 

[DaveMcT]

I've suggested the clutch job wont affect the gearbox oil.

That is WRONG sorry.

You have to remove the drive shafts which will lose the gearbox oil.

First job is to drain the oil. Drop it into a tray then pour that though a funnel into a storage bottle. Kitchen paper folded into four will file the oil as it goes in. However, cold gearbox oil is heavy stuff so expect it to take a while.