General Cannot get hydraulic pipe after 2 months

[murphyv310]

You make it sound like a drinking straw..

Absolutely, it does sound like a drinking straw. I'm old fashioned and would have preferred a copper pipe at least the ends could have been flared and a simple long lasting repair made, not easy these days with plastics.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

FiatPuzzle Did you look at the links I put for replacement slave cylinders? (A few posts up now). Each shows that curly pipe and it’s alloy fitting as being part of the item supplied - and for £37 worth a punt, I’d say?

 

[FiatPuzzle]

FiatPuzzle Did you look at the links I put for replacement slave cylinders? (A few posts up now). Each shows that curly pipe and it’s alloy fitting as being part of the item supplied - and for £37 worth a punt, I’d say?

Hi Herts Hillhopper,

I did thanks - sorry to have not replied earlier - just investigating all the various replies/ideas but I think I've got back to everyone now.

The part you sent a link for looks ideal, it is for the 500 but I'm hoping that might be compatible. I'll do some more digging today and I know someone put a comment up about 500/Panda compatibility.

I am getting to actually see the defective part tomorrow morning so I'll confirm if its the alloy joining piece that failed to see if murphyv310's 8mm fuel hose idea would work.

 

[Officina red]

Keeping a car off the road for months for want of a plastic pipe says a lot about the capability of modern day garages.

Surely it can't be that hard to fabricate an alternative to get the car moving again? If the owner wants to keep things original, it can always be replaced when the proper part becomes available.

Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.

Unfortunately that’s the world we live in, no company can fit a non manufactured part, the liability would be terrifying, my own company (nothing to do with cars) will only fit makers parts, original parts that have been refurbished or will fit second hand parts if the cust can source one , from ebay for example, if you make your own repair to the part or get the old one repaired yourself, they will not touch it.

And to be fair, it’s understandable if the garage repaired the part, and later it fails on the motorway causing fatalities, the person who repaired/fitted the part is in court, and the garage manager/owner is also in court.

 

[jackwhoo]

Someone on here had the alloy connector fail , they replaced it with a brass compression pipe joiner.
Possibly from screwfix or the like , can not remember at moment.

 

[murphyv310]

Unfortunately that’s the world we live in, no company can fit a non manufactured part, the liability would be terrifying, my own company (nothing to do with cars) will only fit makers parts, original parts that have been refurbished or will fit second hand parts if the cust can source one , from ebay for example, if you make your own repair to the part or get the old one repaired yourself, they will not touch it.

And to be fair, it’s understandable if the garage repaired the part, and later it fails on the motorway causing fatalities, the person who repaired/fitted the part is in court, and the garage manager/owner is also in court.

Hi.
I understand what you are stating but in this instance it's the clutch hydraulic system and not brakes. No manufacturer would use a plastic pipe or quick release fitting on the pressure side of brake hydraulic lines.
If in the unlikely event the clutch pedal went to the floor it's hardly an accident situation that could cause fatalities, common sense needs to apply here.

Re your own business, let's be fair I've come across manufacturers using underrated components and not all manufacturers parts are that reliable, why has it failed in the first place......bean counters, cheap materials and poor design, I've seen time and time again in electronics some even are fire hazards. Many non OE solutions are of a higher standard, the converse of course can apply, good service engineers can ofter tear manufactures to ribbons

 

[Officina red]

Hi.
I understand what you are stating but in this instance it's the clutch hydraulic system and not brakes. No manufacturer would use a plastic pipe or quick release fitting on the pressure side of brake hydraulic lines.
If in the unlikely event the clutch pedal went to the floor it's hardly an accident situation that could cause fatalities, common sense needs to apply here.

Re your own business, let's be fair I've come across manufacturers using underrated components and not all manufacturers parts are that reliable, why has it failed in the first place......bean counters, cheap materials and poor design, I've seen time and time again in electronics some even are fire hazards. Many non OE solutions are of a higher standard, the converse of course can apply, good service engineers can ofter tear manufactures to ribbons

I know what you mean, and do agree with it, but the world is no longer like that, what could easily happen is the garage help out and repair it, by non makers parts, a week later something near the repair breaks, the car is back at the garage and it’s his responsibility to repair because he bodged it, plus the garage is going to have to pay for a hire car/lost wages/anything else the customer can think of.

If you’re working for customers the fastest way to get sued is to help out/do a favour, it’s something you learn not to do very quickly.

 

[jrkitching]

If in the unlikely event the clutch pedal went to the floor it's hardly an accident situation that could cause fatalities, common sense needs to apply here.

That was my thought also. Independent garages don't seem to have a problem with making up brake lines, and hydraulic pressure in the clutch actuating circuit is nowhere near that of the brake system.

If you’re working for customers the fastest way to get sued is to help out/do a favour, it’s something you learn not to do very quickly.

Unfortunately I have to agree with you. The blame/compensation culture has killed common sense.

 

[Panda IIs]

Hi.
I take it its the pipe that has the coiled up section that is supposed to damp out clutch vibration. There is a mod for the diesel versions that add in a diaphragm type damper and it comes with the alloy in line connector. This could be fitted. The pipe is plastic and hard to join but I would think a section of braided 8mm fuel hose could be slipped over the pipe once the connector is removed and the pipe carefully cut, use the braided fuel hose (dip in boiling water first) and with as small gap as possible. Secure with two ear "O" clips. The fluid pressure in a clutch circuit is much lower than in brakes, I'm certain it will work even temporarily.

PS.
I have some suitable fuel pipe which I can send and possibly some O clips

FiatPuzzle I would be very cautious mixing an elastomer based hose (fuel line) with brake fluid without checking its response by leaving a piece immersed in the brake fluid of choice for a few days in a glass (for the same reason not plastic) jar. Any sign of swelling (and therefore softening) I would walk away from it even as a temporary solution.

Just saying...

 

[murphyv310]

FiatPuzzle I would be very cautious mixing an elastomer based hose (fuel line) with brake fluid without checking its response by leaving a piece immersed in the brake fluid of choice for a few days in a glass (for the same reason not plastic) jar. Any sign of swelling (and therefore softening) I would walk away from it even as a temporary solution.

Just saying...

Although the thread does need searching one guy did the same mod on a 500.
The car is off the road and the OP has little to loose as a temporary modification.

 

[jrkitching]

I would be very cautious mixing an elastomer based hose (fuel line) with brake fluid

As would I.

That said, are folks still using elastomer based fuel lines? There's good evidence to suggest they're not compatible with E10 fuel.

If the hose isn't compatible with brake fluid, chances are it won't work with the soon-to-be-current forecourt petrol either - so it won't be much use as a fuel line.

In this case, I'd probably make something up in either copper (easier to work with if you haven't all the correct bending tools, but more proke to fatigue) or kunifer, with a coiled loop in it, and run it from the slave to the other side of the quick connector, replacing the latter with a suitable hydraulic fitting. And unless it was problematic, I'd leave it as a permanent repair - it'll be easier to dismantle than the so-called quickconnect.

 

[murphyv310]

See here :
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...n elastomer plastic carry brake fluid&f=false

 

[FiatPuzzle]

So to update having been to the garage and seen the defective part. Slightly back to square one, the part they showed me does not match that identified by the part number (the garage provided) on the diagram. Having pointed this out the garage are going back to confirm what the part number actually is so that I can look for the right part. Meanwhile I will try and find the part myself on the diagram!

In summary I seem to have been given the wrong part number so for all I know they have tried to order the wrong part.

 

[RalphM]

Get some pics full thing with sizes and close ups of any fittings
it may help identify the part or even get one made.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

So to update having been to the garage and seen the defective part. Slightly back to square one, the part they showed me does not match that identified by the part number (the garage provided) on the diagram. Having pointed this out the garage are going back to confirm what the part number actually is so that I can look for the right part. Meanwhile I will try and find the part myself on the diagram!

In summary I seem to have been given the wrong part number so for all I know they have tried to order the wrong part.

I feared that might be the case… what did they show you - a pipe, a fitting, a cylinder? There’s only really those three parts Most parts have number moulded in or stamped on, so it shouldn’t be too hard to find.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

FiatPuzzle You might try these guys... https://www.fiatworkshop.co.uk/parts/Panda_12-_Slave_cylinder.shtml

 

[Panda IIs]

See here :
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...n elastomer plastic carry brake fluid&f=false

Erm; that it is a good reference book but I don't quite follow your point? A fuel hose is more likely to be Nitrile (NBR) based and its propensity to swell will be reflected by its ACN content that in turn affects its solubility parameter (its chemical compatibility with a fluid - liquid). Nitrile is good with hydrocarbons but DOT4 etc brake fluids will react differently hence my recommending a quick check in the actual fluid.

Temperature will also affect rates of change ie under the bonnet or not. As your reference indicates FKM or FFKM would be the elastomer of choice since they are chemically "bullet proof" in most scenarios (not all) but then this would be like using gold plated fittings everywhere in terms of cost and mechanically these flouroelastomers are weak.

As ever everything is a compromise but there are some basic due diligence checks that can be made.

 

[murphyv310]

Erm; that it is a good reference book but I don't quite follow your point? A fuel hose is more likely to be Nitrile (NBR) based and its propensity to swell will be reflected by its ACN content that in turn affects its solubility parameter (its chemical compatibility with a fluid - liquid). Nitrile is good with hydrocarbons but DOT4 etc brake fluids will react differently hence my recommending a quick check in the actual fluid.

Temperature will also affect rates of change ie under the bonnet or not. As your reference indicates FKM or FFKM would be the elastomer of choice since they are chemically "bullet proof" in most scenarios (not all) but then this would be like using gold plated fittings everywhere in terms of cost and mechanically these flouroelastomers are weak.

As ever everything is a compromise but there are some basic due diligence checks that can be made.

Hi.
Just posted it for reference and no other reason. For the OP to decide what way to go or use
Being fair I used braided fuel hose as a temporary repair between a brake fluid tank and master cylinder on a Skoda which used Dot 3, the temporary hose was never replaced and I had the car over 2 years and my dad had it about three further years so it lasted around 5 years with no issues. Mind it was low pressure though.
To be fair I only mentioned it as a temporary fix for the OP.

 

[Panda IIs]

Hi.
Mind it was low pressure though.
To be fair I only mentioned it as a temporary fix for the OP.

Good to make this clear!

Also in this thread (I think) someone raised the question regarding higher proportions of Ethanol in fuel (E5 to E10). The majority of fuel lines use use thermoplastics these days with perhaps an elastomer hose for the last connections, there can be issues with older models and the UK .gov website has listings that identify where there are issues in the cases of some manufacturers and for others (somewhat confusingly) where there aren't (compare the VW with Alfa data for example and read the notes carefully!!).

I believe E85 and E95 (85 and 95% Ethanol) has been available in the Americas for sometime and from my time when I was researching common practices in the automotive sectors I think this showed up issues in the older vehicles that tended to proliferate in South America; in fact I think it was an unofficial testing ground... These proportions can be used in the so called "flex fuel" badged vehicles(?)

Anyway I digress; thanks for the reference.

 

[murphyv310]

Explain to me then what has Ethanol got to do with brake fluid? Does brake fluid contain Ethanol?