Technical Brake pipes repair or replace?

[John202020]

So after having the cam belt replaced by Fiat I noticed a small wet patch on the ground, the drivers side front to rear pipe has failed(leaking) before where it meets the flexible connection on the car body.

Has anyone ever managed to repair/join a steel brake pipe to copper? I know its possible as the Mazda had to be fixed by a professional whilst at Kwik Fit when it blew apart so couldn't be moved at all, they joined it in the engine bay cutting the original in a handy easy to get to place ( unlike under the rear of the car on the pavement).

Or is it a case of buying a kit and replacing the whole length? anyone know where the rear pipes terminate in the engine bay, at the master cylinder or ABS unit?

So its off the road for now and the old Mazda is making some worrying noises over bumps, our life one minor crisis to the next,,

 

[chris3234]

I'm sure jock will be along shortly but you can get heavy duty flaring tools that should be able put. Anew flare on the steel pipe
Provided the remaining part is in good condition

 

[The Panda Nut]

Once upon a time, around 50 years ago I thought I could have a brake component repaired. Result was the brakes failed about a week later. I was doing 70mph. Due to luck and a mate with a strong arm and motorcylcing experience in the passenger seat helping apply max force to the hand brake, and ruthless down changing we stopped 6" short of a stone wall at a T junction.

My advice. NEVER repair brake components maybe except new pistons and seals on cylinders. Its just plain and straight forwardly not worth the risk. If you have to do it more than once, because its not entirely satisfactory, then its doubly irritating.

If new parts are available spend the necessary and be sure its all safe for the future.

 

[John202020]

Once upon a time, around 50 years ago I thought I could have a brake component repaired. Result was the brakes failed about a week later. I was doing 70mph. Due to luck and a mate with a strong arm and motorcylcing experience in the passenger seat helping apply max force to the hand brake, and ruthless down changing we stopped 6" short of a stone wall at a T junction.

My advice. NEVER repair brake components maybe except new pistons and seals on cylinders. Its just plain and straight forwardly not worth the risk. If you have to do it more than once, because its not entirely satisfactory, then its doubly irritating.

If new parts are available spend the necessary and be sure its all safe for the future.

So would you say buy a kit to flare copper pipes and replace the whole thing?

 

[The Panda Nut]

So would you say buy a kit to flare copper pipes and replace the whole thing?

Yes and no. I bought one and it was the wrong type of flare.... So if you feel up to doing this then yes, but check the kit you buy is correct for Fiat fittings. Pipe is cheap and so are the unions. Making the pipes is also simple but cheap flaring kits are not easy to use. Buying new pipes made to length is another option ans also is a reasonable cost alternative. Im sure @bugsymike will be able to give much better advice on the kit and its use.

 

[John202020]

I'm thinking of replacing the whole thing front to rear cylinder
My Mazda is making some really worrying noises over bumps I'm concerned we'll end up with no use able cars

 

[John202020]

@bugsymike ?

 

[bugsymike]

Yes and no. I bought one and it was the wrong type of flare.... So if you feel up to doing this then yes, but check the kit you buy is correct for Fiat fittings. Pipe is cheap and so are the unions. Making the pipes is also simple but cheap flaring kits are not easy to use. Buying new pipes made to length is another option ans also is a reasonable cost alternative. Im sure @bugsymike will be able to give much better advice on the kit and its use.

My brake pipe tools (I have two) are both old school Sykes Pickavant around 40 years old or more they have OP1 and OP2 flares in 3/16 and 1/4 (basically convex and concave) I use Kunifer brake pipe(copper and nickle) as it is strong, doesn't rust yet still easy to form.
The 1/4 inch pipe was handy for when I had a 1947 Karrier Bantam Series 2 lorry and made up the brake lines for that. The main thing is to make sure your new brake nuts are the same design as the original ones as there are lots of choices.
There are probably easier ones to use on the market these days, but the main thing is to practice a few times on some spare pipe to get the flares right.
I have just dug in my garage to check as I have not used them for some time, I used to boast that I have everything except money.

 

[John202020]

Do you think this would work, I only need to make 4 flares and comes with, I think the correct 10mm fittings

UK Copper Pipe Flaring Tool +Nuts Fittings Brake Line Pipe Repair Kit 3/16" 25FT | eBay

7 Peice SAE Hand Held Pipe Flaring Kit Flaring Tool. Brake Line Pipe Repair Kit 3/16" 25FT Copper Pipe Flaring Tool+Nuts Fittings. Need Extra Brake Pipe Unions, A Brake Pipe Flaring Kit or Would Prefer A Whole Kit In One.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[bugsymike]

Do you think this would work, I only need to make 4 flares and comes with, I think the correct 10mm fittings

UK Copper Pipe Flaring Tool +Nuts Fittings Brake Line Pipe Repair Kit 3/16" 25FT | eBay

7 Peice SAE Hand Held Pipe Flaring Kit Flaring Tool. Brake Line Pipe Repair Kit 3/16" 25FT Copper Pipe Flaring Tool+Nuts Fittings. Need Extra Brake Pipe Unions, A Brake Pipe Flaring Kit or Would Prefer A Whole Kit In One.

www.ebay.co.uk

No!!! I tried one of those once and they are crap, Sorry

 

[John202020]

No!!! I tried one of those once and they are crap, Sorry

Saved some money there then, I used to have a old fashioned mdc scruffy place that had a wealth of knowledge made up pipes in a min or two for a few pounds sadly he retired and closed

So now what do I do, the rear is available ready made but the front?

 

[bugsymike]

Saved some money there then, I used to have a old fashioned mdc scruffy place that had a wealth of knowledge made up pipes in a min or two for a few pounds sadly he retired and closed

So now what do I do, the rear is available ready made but the front?

If you can't find a workshop like that , go to a motor trade parts supplier in your area and ask if they can recommend a guy. I am not talking about Halfords

 

[The Panda Nut]

No!!! I tried one of those once and they are crap, Sorry

I was just going to say that. It looks like the one I had. Looking at the professional one there is an extreme difference. Maybe a skilled fitter could make it work but I never made a single successful pipe with mine. But! I did make a profit when my Mrs sold it, without the pipe cutter, on eBay a year or so back so nothings lost overall.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Saved some money there then, I used to have a old fashioned mdc scruffy place that had a wealth of knowledge made up pipes in a min or two for a few pounds sadly he retired and closed

So now what do I do, the rear is available ready made but the front?

My local independant makes them as required. Maybe you could find a local garage who would make one of the right length if you take the fittings along. Its a while since I bought one. May be 49 years..... Edmunds walker used to make them up while I waited. Google brake line supplier and see if it brings anything up. There must still be a steady demand for them.

 

[bugsymike]

My local independant makes them as required. Maybe you could find a local garage who would make one of the right length if you take the fittings along. Its a while since I bought one. May be 49 years..... Edmunds walker used to make them up while I waited. Google brake line supplier and see if it brings anything up. There must still be a steady demand for them.

Edmunds Walker was a good trade place sadly long gone.

 

[koalar]

Here's how I do it

Koalar random thoughts | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

Clutch, gearbox problem You can see the pessure plate here And from further back The inside is normally covered in oil if the input seal/bearing has gone

www.fiatforum.com

If it's just a one off I would just pay a motor factor to make take the old one, they will match the ends and length, wilco motor savers Norwich, mini fords here in Crewe both charge a reasonable price

Now the bad news, the hardest part is undoing the old bits, you will need decent flare spanner,

Or cut the pipe and put a socket on


It all depends on your ability, not the easiest job

 

[AnthonyH]

My Mazda is making some really worrying noises over bumps I'm concerned we'll end up with no use able cars

What noises are they? Are they drum brakes?

I've seen mention of brakes making noises over bumps but not come across anything concrete to say what's the cause.

 

[John202020]

What noises are they? Are they drum brakes?

I've seen mention of brakes making noises over bumps but not come across anything concrete to say what's the cause.

It's the front suspension, I've order a new upper wishbone, replaced the other side only 6 weeks ago for the mot, but have a really bad feeling it's also the lower rear front control arm, that requires the whole engine subframe dropping to replace not a job I can do.

 

[John202020]

Anyone know( think I've an idea, the company that can supply the rear one, on the rear axle) who can make a new front one? Maybe if I contact them they might know how long the front one is? Or any other that I can say I need one say 465cm long?

 

[jrkitching]

Sorry, but another vote for no, John.

Pure copper is a no-no for brake lines; for safety, you need to use copper nickel alloy (Kunifer) pipe. This needs better quality flaring tools than you're going to find for a few quid on ebay.

99% copper pipe work hardens under normal braking pressure and at some indeterminate point in the future, will almost certainly burst, most likely during an emergency stop.