Technical Bleeding clutch

[boyracer9474626]

Hi everyone. I have a Fiat punto 1.4 dynamic sport and I have recently just changed the clutch slave cylinder on it. I am trying to bleed it but the clutch pedal is still on the floor and not springing back. When I pushed the clutch pedal to the floor the first couple times the fluid squirted out the bleeder valve so something was working but I am wondering if I am doing something wrong or missing a step. I bled it without connecting a tube to it so wondering if I bled it incorrectly.

Anyone any ideas as to what I could possibly be doing wrong and could give me any tips/suggestions

Cheers

 

[rmjbn1]

I think this video explains it quite well

Yes, put some pipe over the nipple if you can, into a jar or bottle with a little fluid in it.

Clutch / brake fluid is corrosive, you don't want it just running out.

Also helps you see if air is still coming out, and avoids sucking air back in.

Close the bleed screw and pull the clutch pedal back up by hand.

It's normal for the pedal to stay down if the bleed nipple is open.

Repeat until fluid is clear of air bubbles.

Make sure there's enough fluid in the reservoir at all times.

 

[bugsymike]

Hi everyone. I have a Fiat punto 1.4 dynamic sport and I have recently just changed the clutch slave cylinder on it. I am trying to bleed it but the clutch pedal is still on the floor and not springing back. When I pushed the clutch pedal to the floor the first couple times the fluid squirted out the bleeder valve so something was working but I am wondering if I am doing something wrong or missing a step. I bled it without connecting a tube to it so wondering if I bled it incorrectly.

Anyone any ideas as to what I could possibly be doing wrong and could give me any tips/suggestions

Cheers

It is possible you introduced air back in to the system.
It may sound daft, but if you have plenty of clutch/brake fluid and keep topping it up , open and remove the bleeder altogether so you get a good flow out of the slave cylinder, no pumping involved, then when you can see clean/clear fluid with no bubbles refit the bleeder and gently try the pedal.
I have done this many times with a troublesome one and it sometimes helps if you have a lazy/weak master cylinder, which if all else fails may need replacing.

 

[boyracer9474626]

It is possible you introduced air back in to the system.
It may sound daft, but if you have plenty of clutch/brake fluid and keep topping it up , open and remove the bleeder altogether so you get a good flow out of the slave cylinder, no pumping involved, then when you can see clean/clear fluid with no bubbles refit the bleeder and gently try the pedal.
I have done this many times with a troublesome one and it sometimes helps if you have a lazy/weak master cylinder, which if all else fails may need replacing.

Cheers guys for your help! I’ll try bleeding it today with the bleeding tube and bottle that I have and will see what happens

Wish me luck

 

[boyracer9474626]

It is possible you introduced air back in to the system.
It may sound daft, but if you have plenty of clutch/brake fluid and keep topping it up , open and remove the bleeder altogether so you get a good flow out of the slave cylinder, no pumping involved, then when you can see clean/clear fluid with no bubbles refit the bleeder and gently try the pedal.
I have done this many times with a troublesome one and it sometimes helps if you have a lazy/weak master cylinder, which if all else fails may need replacing.

HELP!

So just a quick update

Bled the clutch with some tubing and a bottle and although it’s getting the bubbles out I am still not feeling much resistance on the pedal at all (not feeling stiff). It is springing back like it should but still feels soft.

Any ideas?

Thanks

 

[rmjbn1]

My thoughts are either:
There's still some air that needs bleeding, or,
There's a leak somewhere

Can you get someone to press the clutch pedal and watch to see if the release arm is being pushed by the slave and to see if you can spot any leaks?

If you have enough fluid, I'd be tempted to syringe the old fluid out of the reservoir and completely flush the system with new DOT4. Should only take 12 or so strokes of the pedal, there's not much fluid in the system.

 

[boyracer9474626]

My thoughts are either:
There's still some air that needs bleeding, or,
There's a leak somewhere

Can you get someone to press the clutch pedal and watch to see if the release arm is being pushed by the slave and to see if you can spot any leaks?

If you have enough fluid, I'd be tempted to syringe the old fluid out of the reservoir and completely flush the system with new DOT4. Should only take 12 or so strokes of the pedal, there's not much fluid in the system.

Thanks for getting back to me. I didn’t notice any leaks. I had somebody help me and we must of bled the system over 20 times (was no visible bubbles in the tube). They were opening and closing the valve and I was pressing and pulling the pedal

When the clutch pedal is being pressed the arm is moving and the slave cylinder is compressing and de-compressing

I am at a loss with it

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Thanks for getting back to me. I didn’t notice any leaks. I had somebody help me and we must of bled the system over 20 times (was no visible bubbles in the tube). They were opening and closing the valve and I was pressing and pulling the pedal

When the clutch pedal is being pressed the arm is moving and the slave cylinder is compressing and de-compressing

I am at a loss with it

Sorry to hear of your woes. It may be that there is an air bubble trapped in the line somewhere which is "shuttling" back and forward with the pedal movement. This can happen as the pedal stroke/displacement is not enough to send a slug of fluid all the way from the master cylinder to the slave in one push of the pedal, therefore when you let the pedal return the air bubble shunts back up the line towards the master cylinder. the answer is to get a one way flow of fluid going by either using a pressure bleeder or a vacuum bleeder.

By the way, it's not unusual at all for a clutch pedal to stay on the floor if the system is dry or has a lot of air in it. It's the clutch itself (cover plate spring) pushing the slave piston back and so shunting fluid back up to the master cylinder which causes the pedal to return when the system is operating normally. It's quite common to get a breakdown call saying "help, my clutch pedal is on the floor and I can't select any gears" When you go out to it you find the reservoir is empty and the slave often mucky with fluid because it's been leaking for some time.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

When the clutch pedal is being pressed the arm is moving and the slave cylinder is compressing and de-compressing

I am at a loss with it

Sounds like you've got it partially bled so you're seeing some movement in the arm but it may not be full range movement. We've discussed this before on here and someone actually went out and measured how much their's was moving but I can't remember what the distance was.

 

[boyracer9474626]

Sounds like you've got it partially bled so you're seeing some movement in the arm but it may not be full range movement. We've discussed this before on here and someone actually went out and measured how much their's was moving but I can't remember what the distance was.

Thanks for the reply. If I can’t get hold of a vaccum or pressure bleeder then what do you suppose I do next? Should I keep trying to bleed it and hope that eventually it’ll get all of the air out?
We seem to find that we are bleeding the clutch around 20 times to the point where we can no longer see bubbles coming up the tube. We assume then that we must have it all out and then when we go to test the clutch pedal it is really soft…
I’ve seen posts saying that you only need to bleed it a couple times and it should be good to go but we’re surpassing that amount and still seem to be getting nowhere with it

 

[Navin Talati]

Hi everyone. I have a Fiat punto 1.4 dynamic sport and I have recently just changed the clutch slave cylinder on it. I am trying to bleed it but the clutch pedal is still on the floor and not springing back. When I pushed the clutch pedal to the floor the first couple times the fluid squirted out the bleeder valve so something was working but I am wondering if I am doing something wrong or missing a step. I bled it without connecting a tube to it so wondering if I bled it incorrectly.

Anyone any ideas as to what I could possibly be doing wrong and could give me any tips/suggestions

Cheers

I have read the previous suggestions.
I would like to feed some input to the issue resolution based on my experience because I am regularly replacing the clutch fluid from slave Cylinder.
It also:sometime happens the you have to pull back the pale with hand and while this action, you should make the oil output nipple very tight. Again release the nipple while pressing paddle speedily. Repeat the process many many times. Take care no air should enter while releasing the pressure or pulling back the clutch paddle.
Hope this may help you.
Please give feedback to this post.
Regards and wish you all the best.
Navin / 23-6-2024

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Thanks for the reply. If I can’t get hold of a vaccum or pressure bleeder then what do you suppose I do next? Should I keep trying to bleed it and hope that eventually it’ll get all of the air out?
We seem to find that we are bleeding the clutch around 20 times to the point where we can no longer see bubbles coming up the tube. We assume then that we must have it all out and then when we go to test the clutch pedal it is really soft…
I’ve seen posts saying that you only need to bleed it a couple times and it should be good to go but we’re surpassing that amount and still seem to be getting nowhere with it

I've bled a number of these and they're usually not too bad. My son's 1.4 8 valve Punto was a different kettle of fish. it just wouldn't bleed out, much like yours. I convinced myself that it was a master cylinder problem - the slave looked good and didn't seem to be leaking. The Haynes manual (grande Punto) seemed to suggest it was not too difficult to change the master cylinder so I bought one and started in. About two hours later, with blood dripping off my fingers, I just couldn't see how to get the old cylinder out. I'd got all the fixings undone but couldn't get it past the pedal cluster. In the end I screwed it all back together and took it round to Kenny's wee Fiat specialist garage for him to do - I hadn't driven a car in many years with no clutch actuation, you know, staring the engine with first gear engaged and changing gear without a clutch, it's "great fun" but I was glad the garage is only about 15 minutes away!

Anyway, his foreman did the job and ended up with blood on his fingers too. Turns out the later Puntos are different to the Grande and the pedal cluster has to mostly come out to allow the cylinder to be withdrawn inside the car. I was glad I handed it over to them. Trouble was that even with the new master cylinder the clutch wasn't great, so I popped back to them next day where Kenny said "I'd have tried a slave first - just leave it here and you can have it back tonight" So I did, he fitted a new slave and the pedal was absolutely brilliant!

 

[boyracer9474626]

Is it maybe the way that I am bleeding that is the problem?

So I’ve been opening the valve
Then pushing pedal to the floor
Then closing the valve
Then lifting pedal up

I repeat this process numerous times

Is there another way

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Is it maybe the way that I am bleeding that is the problem?

So I’ve been opening the valve
Then pushing pedal to the floor
Then closing the valve
Then lifting pedal up

I repeat this process numerous times

Is there another way

That's certainly the traditional way to do it. only thing I can think to say is not to let the pedal up very fast as, if the cylinder is having trouble refilling itself from the reservoir - called recuperation - it may be sucking air round the edge of the piston seal on the return stroke.

You can buy a DIY type pressure bleeder like this: https://www.halfords.com/tools/hand-tools/automotive-tools/gunson-eezibleed-321158.html I've got one and it does work but you need to be careful to get a good seal onto the reservoir otherwise it'll spray brake fluid all over the place - which is bad news because, as you'll probably know, brake fluid is an excellent paint stripper! I look on it as a last resort when I've tried everything else

 

[bugsymike]

Is it maybe the way that I am bleeding that is the problem?

So I’ve been opening the valve
Then pushing pedal to the floor
Then closing the valve
Then lifting pedal up

I repeat this process numerous times

Is there another way

Just one question, have you tried what I suggested at the beginning?

"It is possible you introduced air back in to the system.
It may sound daft, but if you have plenty of clutch/brake fluid and keep topping it up , open and remove the bleeder altogether so you get a good flow out of the slave cylinder, no pumping involved, then when you can see clean/clear fluid with no bubbles refit the bleeder and gently try the pedal.
I have done this many times with a troublesome one and it sometimes helps if you have a lazy/weak master cylinder, which if all else fails may need replacing."

 

[AnthonyH]

A lot of times people think they've not done the job properly because they aren't famlilar with how part xyz operates while the car is at rest. It looks like you've done the job properly...

Take it for a drive and you'll likely find it works just fine.