General Battery size confusion

[Dippyllama]

Hi all, first time poster here,

I have a 1.2l sport fiat 500 which I bought privately from a seller. I think the battery is coming to the end of its life so I'm looking into replacement. Bit confused by what I need for this car, needs to be slightly better than stock because it has a new aftermarket head unit installed but need to know what battery I need first.

According to my licence plate AG08 WXV the compatible battery is a stop/start 242/175/190 027 EFB. I don't have a button on the dashboard for stop/start. Also, if you look at my attached image, it's not a stop/start that has been installed.

Measuring the tray with a tape measure, the width and the outer metal is 220mm wide. The inner plastic tray is about 205mm wide.

Calling Tayna Batteries, they just advised to go off the battery tray size as the stop start are much larger.

Also attached my VIN to help know exactly what to look for.

Please could somebody shed some light on this one.

Thank you

 

[John202020]

Our 09 1.2 pop(no ac ) I use a Varta B36 44aH battery had no issues for years, no stop Start
420 Cold cranking amps

B36 Varta Blue Dynamic Car Battery 12V 44Ah (544401042) (002L 202)

B36 VARTA Blue Dynamic Car Battery <i>Innovation with Purpose, Premium Experience, Powerful History</i> VARTA was founded in 1887 Germany, and was established fully in 1904 by delivering the first electric vehicle battery, famously driven by Thomas Edison. Soon after, VARTA delivers the first...

www.tayna.co.uk

 

[Jockstrap]

Current battery is not relevant - simply wrong.
The car is 15 years old and battery technology has moved on. Stop/start nonsense included.
Useful advice above. Unfortunately the battery in my 2008 is a mongrel on the way out. However the front securing clamp is an important measurement for replacement. Plastic tray copes with leakage and directs any spill through outlet tube below.
Max cranking power within dimensions from reliable make.

 

[MN500]

Why not just replace new for old, same size as you know it fits, and not a stop start (EFB/AGM) type if yours isn't a S/S car? That looks an old battery and I guess it's done the job perfectly well so far.

An aftermarket head unit uses a tiny amount of power, which the alternator will provide when driving.

 

[AnthonyH]

You can buy a flooded battery with 550AH capacity for not much more than the 340AH you currently have. It'll likely fit the tray, but check for sure.

 

[Dippyllama]

Current battery is not relevant - simply wrong.
The car is 15 years old and battery technology has moved on. Stop/start nonsense included.
Useful advice above. Unfortunately the battery in my 2008 is a mongrel on the way out. However the front securing clamp is an important measurement for replacement. Plastic tray copes with leakage and directs any spill through outlet tube below.
Max cranking power within dimensions from reliable make.

Ok thank you, so the length of the current battery should match the new battery atleast and I should get a battery that fits the inner plastic tray in terms of width ?

EDIT: The poster that suggested the B36 seems good but I can get a 012 for less and it has more c20 and slightly more cca, it’s 207mm instead but if that fits the tray is there any reason not to get that over the b36?

 

[jrkitching]

Why not just replace new for old, same size as you know it fits

This only works if you are certain that the battery that's currently fitted is the one it left the factory with.

Otherwise it's possible that the one that's in there now has been replaced by a previous owner and isn't the correct battery for the car.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Easy way is to visit halfords and look up your car in their parts catalogue. Halfords are good for batteries if nothing else. Compare with other suppliers like Shop4for parts and Tayna . Even eBAy. If they all quote the same battery you will have your answer.
Pandas and therefore I suggest 500s had two sizes of battery used. The later cars have a slightly larger and higher capacity battery. Both fit and both will work. There is little difference on cost.

I recently found the battery from our deceased Seat Leon also fits (just) its a 65Amp hour battery. It needed feet removing to fit the tray, but these just clip on so a tap removed them easily. The battery height was less but a twist added to the battery retaining strap did the trick. There is not a lot of point going oversized from the recommended battery unless you live in a cold place like Alaska as its just more money for the same job.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Easy way is to visit halfords and look up your car in their parts catalogue. Halfords are good for batteries if nothing else. Compare with other suppliers like Shop4for parts and Tayna . Even eBAy. If they all quote the same battery you will have your answer.
Pandas and therefore I suggest 500s had two sizes of battery used. The later cars have a slightly larger and higher capacity battery. Both fit and both will work. There is little difference on cost.

I recently found the battery from our deceased Seat Leon also fits (just) its a 65Amp hour battery. It needed feet removing to fit the tray, but these just clip on so a tap removed them easily. The battery height was less but a twist added to the battery retaining strap did the trick. There is not a lot of point going oversized from the recommended battery unless you live in a cold place like Alaska as its just more money for the same job.

You'll know I'm sure, that I'm a big of a fan of Halfords retail shops. I would qualify that by saying I have almost no experience of their repair workshops but, retail wise, they are particularly good for batteries. If you can get access to someone with one of their trade cards then the battery prices are almost unbeatable and they apply the discount to their Yuasa range which makes them very good value when you consider there's no shipping cost to consider. They also provide battery condition assessments using - at bothlocal branches I use - a dedicated Yuasa battery condition tester - looked like this one: https://www.ymfcarparts.co.uk/yuasa...JXnc0yr6EoJXRtd6DIwFDS4beQthRJ9RoCLd8QAvD_BwE Both our local branches do the test FOC and, in my experience, don't "lean" on you if the test declares the battery to be good.

Just one thing to always consider, being a bit of a VAG man, Check whether any vehicle you're dealing with requires a recoding operation to be carried out when renewing batteries. I don't think Fiats do, certainly not the older ones anyway. But, if you don't do it on VAG products the new battery won't be charged properly and it's life will be significantly shortened.

Also worth knowing their "Advance" range of tools carry a lifetime warranty and are actually pretty good. Not in the Snap On/Facom/older Britool/etc league, but more than suitable for some very serious amateur/semi professional use.

Being "old school" I've always been of the opinion that you can never have a big enough battery! So I tend to always buy the biggest battery that will fit the available space! Traditional "wet" lead acid are fine for non Stop Start and I think would be OK for Stop Start if you always, without exception, cancel stop start on start up. - its the repeated heavy current draw and "smart" alternator response to that which tends to kill an ordinary wet battery if used in stop start applications. So, I'd always go for an EFB on a stop start vehicle. AGM is just too expensive for a tight Scotsman like me, but, if the vehicle came new with one I'd probably replace it with one.

 

[ceecff]

Your original battery is 71751130 40AH 300A EN2 no start-stop 175x175x190mm

 

[Dippyllama]

Thank you for all the replies, I’m looking at this battery:

Exide Premium EA530 53Ah 540A Type 012 12V Car Battery With Carbon Boost 2.0 Technology

Exide EA530 Premium Carbon Boost 12V 53Ah 540A car battery The EA530 is a car starter battery from Exide. The dimensions are 207 x 175 x 190 mm.…

carbatterymarket.co.uk

It fits the space and the terminals are in the correct place. Is there any reason why you shouldn’t use an ‘over spec’ battery ? It’s the same price as the b36 so don’t see why not use this one ?

 

[jrkitching]

Is there any reason why you shouldn’t use an ‘over spec’ battery ?

On a car that isn't fitted with S/S, you should be just fine.

For others reading this later, on S/S equipped cars (so most 500's), the most important parameter is the number of charge/discharge cycles the battery is rated for, since this will be the factor that determines how long it will last before S/S becomes unreliable.

 

[Djscorchio]

The aftermarket head unit has no relevance as it's the alternator that powers that when the engine is running. All the battery should be doing is cranking the engine over.

If the battery is going flat when the engine is running due to an aftermarket head unit and an amplifier then that's down to the alternator not providing enough power to keep up. These days it's not really an issue, on an original 500 it might well have been.

I had a Triumph Herald when I was young with a massive amplifier and sub woofer in the boot. It had a dynamo on which couldn't keep up with demand and the battery would go flat in an hour if I had my lights on. I ended up fitting an alternator to it and it was fine afterwards.

 

[Dippyllama]

The aftermarket head unit has no relevance as it's the alternator that powers that when the engine is running. All the battery should be doing is cranking the engine over.

If the battery is going flat when the engine is running due to an aftermarket head unit and an amplifier then that's down to the alternator not providing enough power to keep up. These days it's not really an issue, on an original 500 it might well have been.

I had a Triumph Herald when I was young with a massive amplifier and sub woofer in the boot. It had a dynamo on which couldn't keep up with demand and the battery would go flat in an hour if I had my lights on. I ended up fitting an alternator to it and it was fine afterwards.

As in you fitted a new alternator ?

The reason I’m looking at replacing the battery in the first place is because the wipers are intermittently failing like they aren’t getting enough juice and the power steering once in a blue moon stops workings so I have to restart the car and it works fine.

I’ve deduced it’s the radio drawing more power but I never considered it could be the alternator. May try getting a beefier alternator to see if that rectifies the problem.

Not sure what is in currently but is there any reason not to put the highest amp alternator that will fit in the car ?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

As in you fitted a new alternator ?

The reason I’m looking at replacing the battery in the first place is because the wipers are intermittently failing like they aren’t getting enough juice and the power steering once in a blue moon stops workings so I have to restart the car and it works fine.

I’ve deduced it’s the radio drawing more power but I never considered it could be the alternator. May try getting a beefier alternator to see if that rectifies the problem.

Not sure what is in currently but is there any reason not to put the highest amp alternator that will fit in the car ?

Alternators are not cheap! Wipers pull a much smaller current than the power steering so I'd have been expecting to see a lot more problems with the power steering being interrupted before the wipers would have been "getting in on the act". If 'twer me I'd be monitoring real time battery voltage over a period of time before laying out a sizeable chunk of cash? Alternator should be bumping a standing battery voltage (ie, engine not running) of around 12.5 volts up to somewhere around 13.5 to 14.5 volts when the engine is running - which is what I'd expect to see when I was running around in the car. Depending on the outcome of monitoring the battery voltage you could then make an educated choice of what to look at.

 

[Djscorchio]

Think of the battery as a water tank. The alternator is filling it up. If you take more out of a tank than you put in eventually it's going to be empty. The bigger the tank the longer it takes to empty but to keep it full you need to be able to put more in than you take out, regardless of the size.

Your aftermarket head unit is unlikely to be the problem, unless you have a massive amplifier fitted, even then, if you turn the volume up you would see the headlights flickering in time with the music.

If you hold an inductive ammeter on the battery lead, it will tell you if the battery is charging or draining. On the positive lead, you want the needle to point towards the battery, negative side away from it. One of these is a great tool.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-BT98-11-Ammeter-75-0-75Amp/dp/B000R9ZITM/ref=mp_s_a_1_16_maf_2?crid=24PJEQIUHXRHA&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.digXbGWVg5OYmku8ujDjd0H6NMXOLJHHhTJIzJAfVhWA4SsRSFVLPrIGdVW94dThG-X_ZWOdq9UtGADq0BbV9y1MoSbsWIJJWAW7VAVMnFrcuREMyvDazfNUDwKhZ_q5Q3jZ16PdynPOoUk5W4EAn7OcvkYcTnFS3haYJMyqmTm7RE3s1r9HeUy-_SoC6QR3df0L6D6toClmusY5mJ4kQw.MobT4NsKj20m4L6-cDWQNwhYdQCqkVXHTw9NLEQNEE0&dib_tag=se&keywords=clip+on+ammeter&qid=1745248624&sprefix=clip+on+amme%2Caps%2C140&sr=8-16

 

[MN500]

Think of the battery as a water tank. The alternator is filling it up. If you take more out of a tank than you put in eventually it's going to be empty. The bigger the tank the longer it takes to empty but to keep it full you need to be able to put more in than you take out, regardless of the size.

Your aftermarket head unit is unlikely to be the problem, unless you have a massive amplifier fitted, even then, if you turn the volume up you would see the headlights flickering in time with the music.

Indeed.

Plus, the alternator is unlikely to be the issue as it's not 'beefy' enough. Assuming it is working okay, your standard alternator is sufficient to run your car's electrics, including the relatively small current requirements of an aftermarket headunit, plus replenish what was lost in starting the car in normal driving (not lots of short trips).

Don't just waste money replacing/upgrading an alternator until you KNOW that's the issue

 

[Dippyllama]

This is the head unit: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...der_detail.order_detail_item.3.1a59f19cmo2wCX

No crazy amps fitted or anything. I don’t have an ammeter to check if the battery it’s getting more juice than it outputs.

I’m at a bit of a loss what to replace to be honest, I replaced the wiper linkage and motor initially thinking it was that because the wipers completely died one day but the wipers not working after 30 seconds or so, then kicking back in 30 seconds later after I mess with the stalk a bit.

The reason I thought it was the radio was because I cranked the brightness up on the screen and that’s when the wipers had more issues than the current issue.

 

[Ralf S.]

Your battery was (as at post #10) is a 40Ah type 002L @ 175 x 175 x 190mm

Your suggestion (at post #12) is a 53Ah type 012 @ 207 x 175 x 190mm. which is an option.

You can also get a 60Ah type 027 @ 242 x 175 x 190 .. but check that it will fit in the battery tray liner. Looks like it should.


Forget messing about with the alternator. Your alternator is good for 105 Amps .. so you would need to have a stadium sized setup for it not to be able to feed them... and in any case, the alternator lights up the charging light on the dash, if it's not working or struggling.

You can check the output by measuring the voltage across the terminals when the engine is on a fast idle; it should say 14.3~6 volts or thereabouts.
If you rev the engine from idle, up to about 1500rpm with the lights on and the heated rear window on and the wipers running.. the lights should not go dim and get brighter.

Your battery, when cold, should have 12.3 volts. If it's 11.anything, or less, then it's knackered.
Personally I'd fit the biggest battery that will physically fit.. since with enough cranking amps you can ignite water, never mind petrol...

If the car still stutters electronically, check the battery earth strap .. and, if the battery terminals look loose or dirty, remove the battery clamps, clean everything up and refit them tight.


Ralf S.

 

[GettinBetter]

...and in any case, the alternator lights up the charging light on the dash, if it's not working or struggling.

Don't agree.
I had battery issues from the day I bought my 500 twinair, changed batteries, alternator, earth straps, negative battery terminals, and not once did the light come on on the dash. IMO, I think its solved now that I put another earth able on (link below), I've not had a peep out of it, regarding electrical issues.

Another Earth Cable