General All new Pandina.

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General All new Pandina.

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It seems Fiat still loves the city car.
The new Fiat Pandina brings the Panda back to its roots...
Fiat is not giving up on the city car class.

New FIAT Pandina-1.jpeg


Bosses have told Auto Express that a new baby Panda – or Pandina – will soon join the Grande Panda and its bigger siblings.

It will come with a hybrid powertrain to target European markets, and our exclusive images show what it could look like.

New FIAT Pandina-2.jpeg
 
There’s conflicting reports on the reporting (second guessing). As I reported in a thread before, they have confirmed that a real Panda alternative, ie a a small car, is on the cards, Fiat have not said which platform it will sit on.
Some of the second guessers have stated (guessed) it will sit on the 500e platform but, as Fiat have said there will be a 4x4, it will presumably sit on the modified 500e/hybrid and have ICE fwd and electric rear to form 4x4.
However, some motoring jurnos are surmising it will be on the cetroventi, as this platform had a lot of development and was, allegedly, almost put into production WITH provision for 4x4. I do hope they will as I can rest easy knowing it’s a Fiat and not a badge engineered euro-clone.
Whichever it is, the earliest date is 2027 and the latest 2030, seeing as the Panda is no longer available in the UK, can we wait that long?
 
The Zurich motor show centroventi and the Polish press 4x4 ‘imagining’
 

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I’d absolutely love to see a city car size option. The more stripped down, the better in terms of ‘equipment’. Especially the kind that changes a friendly chat with the windscreen replacement guy outside the house, with a silly half day out of work to take the car to some industrial estate where you have to wait outside for an hour or three because only there can they calibrate the sensors (and make a balls of it, meaning it needs done twice). All the practicalities of this otherwise ‘nice to have’ stuff I’ve experienced.

Oh, and as of the very latest Toyota models… the traffic sign recognition still can’t understand those ‘20mph when lights flash’ school zones. So even at 9pm, dark and empty city streets, it alerts me and tells me I’m speeding along some stretches of road when it sees the 20mph sign. Same with some turn offs with oddly positioned signs, it’ll suddenly think a 60mph is a 40mph until the next speed change. I forgot how annoying it was until this. Passengers (non driving) also complained and felt uneasy at the constant beeping of the system as it beeps to show when signs change or even when [its own cruise control] temporarily pushes it 1mph past the speed limit 🙃

Anyway, we’re stuck with all of this kit now. …wasn’t it yesterday when being pulled over by the police and not being able to accurately tell them the speed of the road was a driving offence? So is it a smart idea to get us used to depending on a cars often incorrect interpretation 🤔

Our future Panda’s are going to be condemned with this stuff either way. I was only like 7 at the time, but did people have similar feelings in 2002/4 when ‘ABS’ became mandatory… and later, the TPMS system even in the Pop models?
 
Just to show us a road sign we can see on our dash?

I wonder if the computing requirements for the deep learning neural networks to support it is calculated into the CO2 emissions? 🤔
I wonder if the car manufacturers want ever more complex cars so they can justify an ever increasing new car price - so they buy the politicians. To me its just something else that will be going wrong some years down the line with minimal real world value.
 
I wonder if the car manufacturers want ever more complex cars so they can justify an ever increasing new car price - so they buy the politicians. To me its just something else that will be going wrong some years down the line with minimal real world value.
I think it’s more like the systems manufacturers…if it was the car makers we’d still be making diesel’s
 
I wonder if the car manufacturers want ever more complex cars so they can justify an ever increasing new car price - so they buy the politicians. To me its just something else that will be going wrong some years down the line with minimal real world value.
The chip shortage initially meant they couldn’t produce all models in high volume so a lot of makers started prioritising higher spec models as much as they could with the limited parts they could secure. More return and all that.

Then - somehow the chip shortage lasted longer than 2020…. And the legislation on BEVs got tighter and less realistic. Car companies could not ignore it any longer.

But nobody wants them. Sales figures are poor. Some dealers won’t even accept trade ins in the case of Porsche…

Only thing left to do is close the price gap. So they’re inflating prices of engine variants to make it look like it’s not as much more to drive an EV.

That’s my take on it. I really feel for the EU based car makers. They’ve got no choice but to comply and risk their whole business on these silly strategies to meet targets. Other makers can depend on the rest of the world’s sales of all kinds of cars into the future. Of course… our government just copies or tries to one up the EU regs sadly. Now we’ve the 2030 deadline. Thanks, Boris.

Higher prices… higher entry specs. Goodbye to basic little cars like the Panda Pop and Sandero Access :-(

Oh, and safety regulations. NCAP pushing for basic ratings to be dependent on lane jeep assist and ‘nanny tech’. Sadly the manufacturers must comply to avoid ‘zero stars’. And the regulators go along. Chicken or egg? Who started it and encouraged the other - that, I’m not sure
 
The chip shortage initially meant they couldn’t produce all models in high volume so a lot of makers started prioritising higher spec models as much as they could with the limited parts they could secure. More return and all that.

Then - somehow the chip shortage lasted longer than 2020…. And the legislation on BEVs got tighter and less realistic. Car companies could not ignore it any longer.

But nobody wants them. Sales figures are poor. Some dealers won’t even accept trade ins in the case of Porsche…

Only thing left to do is close the price gap. So they’re inflating prices of engine variants to make it look like it’s not as much more to drive an EV.

That’s my take on it. I really feel for the EU based car makers. They’ve got no choice but to comply and risk their whole business on these silly strategies to meet targets. Other makers can depend on the rest of the world’s sales of all kinds of cars into the future. Of course… our government just copies or tries to one up the EU regs sadly. Now we’ve the 2030 deadline. Thanks, Boris.

Higher prices… higher entry specs. Goodbye to basic little cars like the Panda Pop and Sandero Access :-(

Oh, and safety regulations. NCAP pushing for basic ratings to be dependent on lane jeep assist and ‘nanny tech’. Sadly the manufacturers must comply to avoid ‘zero stars’. And the regulators go along. Chicken or egg? Who started it and encouraged the other - that, I’m not sure

Interesting comments.

The other thing you could have mentioned is protectionism, if i recall correctly Chinese car manufacturers are facing EV car import tariffs. I can't tell if this is genuine, in that the Chinese are trying to dump EVs into Europe, or if the European EV makers are just poor and bloated companies ripe for restructuring.

EVs are certainly going to produce a shake up or down in the car industry. Will the German car industry be hollowed out like the British one was? I mean those German cars are really expensive, uninspiring, and overladen with technology in my opinion.
 
Oh, and as of the very latest Toyota models… the traffic sign recognition still can’t understand those ‘20mph when lights flash’ school zones. So even at 9pm, dark and empty city streets, it alerts me and tells me I’m speeding along some stretches of road when it sees the 20mph sign. Same with some turn offs with oddly positioned signs, it’ll suddenly think a 60mph is a 40mph until the next speed change. I forgot how annoying it was until this. Passengers (non driving) also complained and felt uneasy at the constant beeping of the system as it beeps to show when signs change or even when [its own cruise control] temporarily pushes it 1mph past the speed limit 🙃

Is this not largely customisable though?

The older version you can have it so it shows the last sign it saw which would tick off speed sign assist.

But you can then set the tolerance be it 1mph, 3mph or 5mph or I think even 10 and also if it beeps.

The devil will be in the detail obviously as to whether it defaults everything each time you turn the key but it may be that it being a courtesy car no one has spent 2 minutes making it not annoying.

I have mine on because it's entirely not annoying if set up correctly but it's also only right about 85-90% of the time as well although the beeps have never been on and will never be on worst it does if you're over the posted limit as it sees it is display the sign in red.

However with me tactically buying a November 2016 car...my car predates these systems becoming mandatory in April 2017 (and flat rate road tax thank ****) so I may have more options.
 
Interesting comments.

The other thing you could have mentioned is protectionism, if i recall correctly Chinese car manufacturers are facing EV car import tariffs. I can't tell if this is genuine, in that the Chinese are trying to dump EVs into Europe, or if the European EV makers are just poor and bloated companies ripe for restructuring.

EVs are certainly going to produce a shake up or down in the car industry. Will the German car industry be hollowed out like the British one was? I mean those German cars are really expensive, uninspiring, and overladen with technology in my opinion.
I'm not sure - but I am extremely against the CCP and its tactics... be it human rights, freedom of information or enterprise. We all play a factor in 'supporting' it with our love of cheap, usually plastic tat, certainly. But in my view, I wouldn't care if they had twice the innovation of a Tesla at half the price, they cross so many lines in how they treat their people, their neighbouring countries and their whole political ideology. Now I know, we all get into heated debates but you can very much separate out all things EU / US / UK from our companies which are often at odds with our governments. There simply is no company that exists without ties to the CCP in China - and it's extremely sad because it's an amazing country / part of the world with so much talent and culture under that oppression. This is why I'm so against supporting it more than we 'have to'.

I don't blame the western nations and other nations from putting up protection barriers economically to stop this. They quite literally will flood the market with an abundance of cheap tat cars, only unlike the £19.99 made in china kettle you can get from Argos that lasts.. a year and a half maybe, then can be recycled when it becomes e-waste, cars just sit around taking up a lot of space on streets and driveways and it's not so clear how recyclable they are. We can't even get chargers with our new £1,000 phones made by western and other free nations companies because we're told it's too irresponsible to the planet! But there is no regard for the planet with the CCP. They have no regard for life, wellbeing, the planet, competitive spirit etc. They will gut all of our car industries and the problem is, given the chance, the average consumer will do it.

Look at the risks of TikTok, and people don't care because it satiates them in the moment. It's like a can of Coca-Cola, except, whether or not its form of 'obesity' can be seen or felt is much less obvious than the obese people you see and judge mentally everyday and don't want to become. People are ignorant sometimes and vote poorly with their wallet and attention.

Look at the amount of cars China has copied over the years from EU car makers, even our beloved Panda, the 'Great Wall Peri' which they actually had the audacity to say Fiat were spying on them to produce the 2003 Panda... they don't even have the decency to come clean, or make up a believable excuse. That's how seriously they take us. Why should we allow them to enter our market and destroy it. It's not like they have any quality products or innovation. They just sell at a lower price, afforded by the fact they have no environmental or worker safety and quite literally champion slave labour to make it all balance financially.

When a company wants my money, it's greedy. But that's fine. I'll give them my money if they give me enough of what I want, in a way that I can afford, that won't kill me or others. When a company is willing to go broke, put out of business my other choices as a consumer and is controlled / owned by the CCP ... and it wants my attention and money and to be in my life... that's worse. Far, far worse. immeasurably worse. MG is the perfect case in point, go test drive on of their knock-off BMW X series / Mazda / Mercedes grilled monstrosities. Whilst on the surface it's cheap, looks.. familiar, and is kitted out with all sorts a test drive in one and you'll hear.. feel and be unable to deny what utter trash they are producing. It's actually quite sad metal is being taken from the ground to be wasted on those things. And the roads are flooded with them... Owned by a state sponsored (CCP) controlling interest, the same one behind the knock off Panda, and knock off Evoque that already had rust bubbles under the paint at a car show where they displayed it. And yet, our companies - especially Land Rover - doing everything they can to compete in their market... sickening.

Rant over! lol

If it were just about EV disruption, well, people with more money than me are voting on that one. Of course people will buy anything to try them and EVs have their advantages. They are certainly sold with some big claims about how good they are for us all. Yet to see any credible evidence that they are outside of big city air quality issues. We read biased car media coverage paid for by eco activist groups that act like it's a good thing, that they're here to stay etc... but then, nobody I know (very few people mind you) who bought one (mostly as company cars at a huge discount or free to them) seem to want another one after the initial year with them. That'll be the real test. For less than my beat up, old , bad condition overpriced Lexus CT .. I could have gotten an under two year old Corsa Elite, with electric powertrain, every bell and whistle, less mileage and I think.. massage seats if it's new enough.. For around £12k I'm sure I seen one. If my DS3 and Avensis were anything to go by, a relatively low price used is usually for a reason - because less people want them and it can be hard to ignore when you own them. EVs seem to be going that way.

Is this not largely customisable though?

The older version you can have it so it shows the last sign it saw which would tick off speed sign assist.

But you can then set the tolerance be it 1mph, 3mph or 5mph or I think even 10 and also if it beeps.

The devil will be in the detail obviously as to whether it defaults everything each time you turn the key but it may be that it being a courtesy car no one has spent 2 minutes making it not annoying.

I have mine on because it's entirely not annoying if set up correctly but it's also only right about 85-90% of the time as well although the beeps have never been on and will never be on worst it does if you're over the posted limit as it sees it is display the sign in red.

However with me tactically buying a November 2016 car...my car predates these systems becoming mandatory in April 2017 (and flat rate road tax thank ****) so I may have more options.
In the Avensis you could turn it off. I'm not sure about the Yaris, I think it can be but then you can't have adaptive cruise functional as it depends on it. Maybe there's a way to disable the warnings but keep it on for that, but it didn't seem so in my short time with it.

We have a lecturer currently who traded in an older A3 for a modern, automatic one. She says it's slow and horrible to drive compared to the old one and all the safety tech which she can't disable makes it a living hell to live with - the stuff that comes back on. At least Mercedes did stuff like put the start/stop deactivated right beside / attached to the start button to make it handy.

Smart move on the 16/17 thing. My DS3 was just in the £0 tax bracket as a 66 plate. Avensis ... not so lucky. From the 'Diesel is public enemy number one' phase of the governments regulations.

I'd wonder if the EVs will ever be hit with something similar down the line but I can't see many of them racking up the 300k miles that a lot of old dirty diesel have. Except for Toyota's.... with its limited, slow charge and low range but no doubt will last longer as a result.

The safety kit is annoying. But it's annoying me so much increasingly when I walk the quay at lunch, cross the road or am stuck in traffic (more so lately with roadworks in this city) and people are gazing down at their phone. Multi-lane inner city roads. Filled with traffic lights and crossings. Veering. Slowing down..speeding up. You overtake and they nearly swerve into you, phone in hand. if it stops this crap, then perhaps it's worth the headache. The police ought to crack down on that more than speeding traps nowadays, they could probably fund all sorts if they turned their attention to that problem. It's the only potentially redeeming part of the mandatory safety tech if it can stop people (with their ignorance) from killing people or damaging property.

On a final note... you know my friends who've had the BMWs and Audi's since the days of my Panda? They asked me over the last year what I think about having an automatic. Told them it's great and handy in traffic. Both said to me on separate occasions "Yeah, you can text properly with it". To them, and probably many others, this is why they wanted an automatic. It just enables / makes it easier to take stupid risks. They referred to it like it wasn't even doing anything illegal or reckless or harmful :-/. This is reality today. Perhaps the legislators are attempting to crack down on it?
 
I’d absolutely love to see a city car size option. The more stripped down, the better in terms of ‘equipment’. Especially the kind that changes a friendly chat with the windscreen replacement guy outside the house, with a silly half day out of work to take the car to some industrial estate where you have to wait outside for an hour or three because only there can they calibrate the sensors (and make a balls of it, meaning it needs done twice). All the practicalities of this otherwise ‘nice to have’ stuff I’ve experienced.

Oh, and as of the very latest Toyota models… the traffic sign recognition still can’t understand those ‘20mph when lights flash’ school zones. So even at 9pm, dark and empty city streets, it alerts me and tells me I’m speeding along some stretches of road when it sees the 20mph sign. Same with some turn offs with oddly positioned signs, it’ll suddenly think a 60mph is a 40mph until the next speed change. I forgot how annoying it was until this. Passengers (non driving) also complained and felt uneasy at the constant beeping of the system as it beeps to show when signs change or even when [its own cruise control] temporarily pushes it 1mph past the speed limit 🙃

Anyway, we’re stuck with all of this kit now. …wasn’t it yesterday when being pulled over by the police and not being able to accurately tell them the speed of the road was a driving offence? So is it a smart idea to get us used to depending on a cars often incorrect interpretation 🤔

Our future Panda’s are going to be condemned with this stuff either way. I was only like 7 at the time, but did people have similar feelings in 2002/4 when ‘ABS’ became mandatory… and later, the TPMS system even in the Pop models?
No. Both of those things are unintrusive and sensible and useful. They add to the party.
Sign reader? Who cares about road signs? The government don't and the county highways don't or they would replace the ones that have fallen over, clean the ones that are unreadable because dirty, and cut the vegetation back so you can see the ones that disappeared a long time back into the hedge rows. There are more bad and badly placed and maintained signs around than I care to mention. We have a row of three useful road signs near me they read (at about 15m intervals 70, 40 and 30mph. All show as a row from 50m back when you round the corner where they are. What utter hogwash. We recently had the large painted roundels on one road for 40mph and signs saying 30. It took weeks to sort that out. There is NO system that can cater for this mess and it brings nothing to the party whatsoever. If I cant see the signs I will stop driving. Im not relying on a set of spurious sensors to read a load of invisible and stupid signs, or relying on that to maintain my driving license thankyou,.
 
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