Technical Air Conditioning Condenser Fault

[JNAnderson]

Receipt for radiator. No idea if that's overpriced. Just conveniently (on purpose) dropped my magazine in the car park in front of another 2011 Fiat 500. Its condenser doesn't look as bad as mine but the bars are definitely bowed. Wasn't close enough to see how many missing fins

 

[JNAnderson]

Attached

 

[jrkitching]

Just conveniently (on purpose) dropped my magazine in the car park in front of another 2011 Fiat 500. Its condenser doesn't look as bad as mine but the bars are definitely bowed. Wasn't close enough to see how many missing fins

Time to request some pictures, methinks.

Can some of you nice folks out there please take a picture of your A/C condenser? It's immediately behind the black grille at the bottom of the front of the car, so just take a piccie from the outside through the grille. Please remember to tell us how old your car is when you upload the image.

Let's see if we can get a handle on how widespread this issue is.

Thanks in advance,
JR

 

[John202020]

Regards your water radiator price £120 is probably average but it's double the price you could have bought it for.
My wife (it's her car) also seems to think I find things to fix but actually I'm fixing things that have failed or will in the near future now almost all bits have been done as far as I can tell so should be worry free for several years to come.
Our rear beam axel that holds the rear wheels was quote rusty so removed the rust and treated it with waxoil

 

[JNAnderson]

What damage can rusty rear beam axles do? Just out of curiousity.

 

[John202020]

What damage can rusty rear beam axles do? Just out of curiousity.

Non, depends on how long you're keeping the car, if its only say 6/7 years then no worries, if like us, its a keep until scrap, then anything that slows down failure of parts either by replacement or prevention/protection helps in the very long term.

 

[JNAnderson]

Last question (constantly sitting pondering over what damage could happen next), could the fact the fins are gone from condenser and hanging loosely behind etc, cause damage from them to my radiator behind it? Don't fancy replacing the radiator again anytime soon

 

[jrkitching]

Last question (constantly sitting pondering over what damage could happen next), could the fact the fins are gone from condenser and hanging loosely behind etc, cause damage from them to my radiator behind it? Don't fancy replacing the radiator again anytime soon

Most unlikely.

 

[JNAnderson]

Have tried Googling the answer to this after discussion with my boyfriend but unfortunately can't find a straightforward answer. After answers the other day with regards to using or not using the air con while my condenser isn't in great condition, and how using it or not using it can damage the compressor, Matt thinks only cars with air con use a compressor, therefore if my compressor did pack in it would be fine, the only issue being that I wouldn't have a compressor to dehumidify the hot air when demisting. I.E. the car would run like a car without aircon

When I've searched online though I'm seeing that the auxiliary belt would need to be replaced to one not for air con.. is this right enough or could you use the same belt, even though it's meant for air con? Really trying to figure out the best option so I can stop worrying. Don't know if I should be using air con or Not using air con! I'd rather just eliminate it completely. Sorry for being constant!

 

[jrkitching]

Don't know if I should be using air con or Not using air con! I'd rather just eliminate it completely. Sorry for being constant!

Just use it as normal.

If the condenser does give up the ghost, then all that will happen is that the refrigerant will evaporate away and the control system will disengage the compressor. At that point you can make a decision about whether to fix the condenser, or just live without A/C.

There is no need to change the auxiliary belt as the compressor drive pulley will just freewheel with the clutch disengaged, exactly as it does when you have the A/C turned off at the switch.

 

[JNAnderson]

If the condenser does give up the ghost, then all that will happen is that the refrigerant will evaporate away and the control system will disengage the compressor. At that point you can make a decision about whether to fix the condenser, or just live without A/C.

If this did happen and the control system disengages the compressor, would it then be a case of needing a new compressor and condenser? Ideally I'd like to wait until summer to replace the condenser so I can save for it, but if waiting a few months is going to mean knackering the compressor &a adding extra cost, I'd rather do it sooner.

 

[John202020]

If this did happen and the control system disengages the compressor, would it then be a case of needing a new compressor and condenser? Ideally I'd like to wait until summer to replace the condenser so I can save for it, but if waiting a few months is going to mean knackering the compressor &a adding extra cost, I'd rather do it sooner.

Once its lost the gas the whole system switches off protecting the components, no damage will happen to the compressor even if left "switched on" you can then wait until funds allow a repair, if you're handy with a spanner once its been professionally discharged(even if empty) you can replace it yourself, not hard at all, only new 'O' rings required for the end of the pipes to seal them then get someone to recharge the system.

 

[jrkitching]

If this did happen and the control system disengages the compressor, would it then be a case of needing a new compressor and condenser?

Obviously you'll need a new condenser, but you are unlikely to need a new compressor unless you leave it unrepaired for long enough for the compressor seals to dry out, just as they would if you didn't periodically run the A/C from time to time. You'd likely be fine once it stopped working for a few weeks at least, but I wouldn't leave it in a discharged state for months if you want to use it again. Whatever you do, if it's been left discharged for more than 48 hrs you'll need to replace the dryer, but they're cheap and it probably should be replaced as a matter of course anytime you are discharging the A/C for some other reason.

 

[typecastboy]

I've changed 3 of these. Two didn't have any gas in them as they were badly damaged. One did. It cost £10 to empty it. Swapping them over is just 4 small bolts. Once the bumper is off it's a 10 minute job. I buy good second hand ones on eBay for about £30.

 

[JNAnderson]

Any garage would know if the compressor needed changes wouldn't they? If I took it in, they'd check what all needed replaced?

Thank you, was yours as bad as mine on any that you replaced?

 

[jrkitching]

Any garage would know if the compressor needed changes wouldn't they? If I took it in, they'd check what all needed replaced?

Thank you, was yours as bad as mine on any that you replaced?

If your A/C is still working, it's extremely unlikely you'll need to replace the compressor.

If you do decide to replace the condenser, I'd suggest you take it to an A/C specialist, rather than a general purpose garage or main dealer. I also wouldn't risk fitting a secondhand condenser; given the speed at which the fins corrode away in the UK climate, this is one part that's best bought new. The dryer would appear to be integral with the condenser, so one that's been sitting in some breaker's yard for weeks or months is likely to be scrap.

I'd expect you'd pay an independent specialist somewhere in the region of £175-£200 to supply & fit a replacement condenser/dryer & regas. A Fiat main dealer would likely charge £500-£600.

You can buy the part here.

 

[typecastboy]

I don't get them from breakers. I buy them from people who buy scrap cars and break the them up. They've all been as good as new so far. Your radiator cost looks like a 100% mark up too.

If it was my car I was going to keep I guess I would buy a new one, but the second hand ones all come off newer cars than the ones I'm fixing so I'm generally putting on a newer one. Mine have been bent more than anything else in a frontal accident. So bent that I can't get the bolts done up when i replace the radiator.

 

[JNAnderson]

Yeah when it first became noticeable I did ask a Fiat garage and they'd quoted £600 for a non Fiat part condenser. Definitely a bit out of my budget. £200-300 seems reasonable in a few months.

With my air con being off, but having the heating on to Mix or Demist, I read on the Fiat website this uses your compressor even when the air con is off. Again, this wont cause any more damage to the condenser or compressor? I've always used my heating at least on no1 when driving to keep windows clear. Feel I'm going in circles but my mean issue is, I want to prevent as much further damage as possible and I'll do what's best to make sure I don't do more. Thank you all

 

[jrkitching]

With my air con being off, but having the heating on to Mix or Demist, I read on the Fiat website this uses your compressor even when the air con is off. Again, this wont cause any more damage to the condenser or compressor? I've always used my heating at least on no1 when driving to keep windows clear. Feel I'm going in circles but my mean issue is, I want to prevent as much further damage as possible and I'll do what's best to make sure I don't do more. Thank you all

On models with manual climate control, if A/C is selected off, the compressor won't run, irrespective of the position of the other controls.

That said, all you need to do is to use the car as normal. If the condenser gives up the ghost, the refrigerant will quickly be lost and then the compressor won't run regardless of what you've selected. The low pressure sensor will activate and prevent it from operating.

I did ask a Fiat garage and they'd quoted £600 for a non Fiat part condenser.

£600 for a £90 part that'll take an hour at most to fix - they're having a laugh.

 

[frupi]

JN, you're beginning to fret needlessly.

The advice jrkitching has given is absolutely sound. There's no need to make more of this than there is.

Bottom line is, the condenser should be replaced as soon as you have the cash to do so if you wish to have A/C working properly and to also prevent environmental damage if the system is leaking, though if it has already, then there's nothing you can do about that.

I really don't understand Fiat's logic regarding pricing to suppy and fit a new A/C condenser, though if someone is taken in enough to pay what they want, then so be it, but I certainly wouldn't.

Buy new, don't bother with second hand. The one is this link is cheap and really you shouldn't be paying any more than the price listed for supply only. Always check with the supplier first though before buying to make sure it is the right one:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAND-NEW...453420?hash=item3f22d6f8ec:g:XJIAAOSwqu9U2jHF

An independent garage really shouldn't charge any more than £100 to fit it, it's hardly a big job, though you'd be better of finding a good local mobile mechanic to do the job, but make sure the system has been degassed first.