Tuning Abarth T-Jet powered Tipo sleeper project

[lewey]

I have been thinking about a new project for a bit. Please see this thread with my goals for the car.

Although about the heaviest of the cars I have been considering, the Tipo seems to provide very good capacity for suspension upgrades and ultimately quality of ride and road holding. Parts availability is very good (at the moment at least) because of the large range of cars that use the parts.

Current rough plan is:

• Buy a 1.1 or 1.4 Tipo (for tax reasons and also don't want 16v look)
• Buy a Twinspark Alfa GTV (seen tax'd and MOT'd for £600!)
• Put 1368cc turbo Abarth engine in (will need Tipo 1.1 wing engine mount)
• Utilise all its standard electronics like my other two cars
• Put front and rear suspension from GTV on Tipo
• Keep Tipo/GTV style gearbox, but I will make one as I have with my Uno project
• Use steering rack/equipment from GTV
• Get dials from 16v Tipo
• Keep standard looking as possible
• Will consider new coils/dampers/coilovers later
• Use FIAT Coupe Turbo exhaust or perhaps GTV

I hope that having considerably less weight at the front than any performance model using the Tipo platform I know of and 180BHP / 180 lb-ft will make for a unique Tipo experience when pushing hard or whipping around town.

The car should be £130 to tax, £70 FC to add to my current pseudo-classic policy and return up to 50MPG when I can't cane it. Long-term economy fun!

I have already read a fair bit in the last few hours about my options, but I could easily have missed a trick. I welcome opinions and advice please. Reasons not to choose a Tipo for this project will also be entertained!

 

[lewey]

Ah, so the 1.1 was never in the UK. 1.4 it is then. Gonna make it tricky to get off the shelf engine mount, since FIAT no longer supply them.

 

[Hellcat]

Worth checking abroad for a 1.1 Tipo in a scrap yard or is the delivery more than the cost of a custon engine mount?

 

[maddogmorg]

Seems a lot of work for a car that won't be much faster than the 16v?

 

[lewey]

Worth checking abroad for a 1.1 Tipo in a scrap yard or is the delivery more than the cost of a custon engine mount?

A pretty tricky thing to do. Ringing foreign scrap yards sounds like a nightmare! Imagine an Italian ringing one here. I rarely understand them in English. I was thinking foreign enthusiast forums?

Seems a lot of work for a car that won't be much faster than the 16v?

I'm sure others will be thinking the same as you maddog. I'm still undecided in reality. I'll spend a while choosing the right car and moment to purchase, so this isn't going to happen too quickly. My thoughts, to clarify the theory and how I came about to this:

I think it is hard to quantify how much faster it would be. It will have same power to weight as a Coupe Turbo. Would you say that was much faster? But it is not all about power for this. Handling does promise to be good with the proposed suspension upgrades. I can't think of a much better power/weight/suspension package with a practical, everyday body shell. None of the modern range of FIATs could touch it.

Why does that really tidy looking 16v on Pistonheads and eBay not sell for under a grand? I believe the answer is because people don't trust the reliability and can't abide the economy as a daily driver. I will sort those two issues out for starters. I'm trying to find a package that is just good to drive everyday and is surprisingly fast when pushed (which won't be often in modern traffic), not a racing car or drag car.

I know this is a weird project, I do like odd conversions and particularly the "underdog" car concept. Insurance for GTVs and Coupes is ridiculous. Massively modified Tipos seem fine according to my insurer. Most people will put the biggest engine they can in a car and boost it to the most it will take. I could do that much more easily than this project, but how long do these monsters hang around? It is normally only months before they disappear, never to be seen again. It's because going fast in a straight line is boring. Breaking down and engine failures are boring. Listening to your loud exhaust on the motorway is annoying. Filling up with petrol all the time is annoying.

I want to use the engine I have because a) I've got it b) it represents the most power for a given economy I am willing to accept in a daily driver. With this is mind, what is a good alternative to the Tipo?

 

[sediciRich]

Cant help thinking I'd go a step further to a Croma or Tempra, ok proper rare but totally forgotten. My friend has a lancia Ypslon ok steering wheel on the wrong side but with wood and leather its a really smart little car gathering dust, sure it would fit the engine you mention. Failing that go for the tipo, I would imagine and SLX might give you electric windows etc as you wanted a level of comfort, stealing the GTV or Coupe interior might make for a niver inside, but late alfa 146's had really nice interiors. Sounds like you've got most of the bits, give it a shot!!

 

[lewey]

I've had a few Lancias in my short but busy car career, including 3 Themas, all Turbos. Croma or Tempra is similar size and they are just too big. The Tipo is really pushing it for weight as it is at around a tonne with the proposed engine and bits. I think I will keep the interior standard looking. That is really what it is about for me. I love the retro everyday cloth FIAT upholstery. Staying in the seat might be a bit annoying admittedly. The FIAT versions of the "type" cars always have the most thoughtful and useful interiors.

 

[lewey]

Wondering if the modified shell introduced in 93 is actually beneficial for handling. Seems like it is certainly heavier, which is a little undesirable. What are people's opinion?

Would like central locking. I can make remote pretty easily. Don't want sunroof. Not bothered about electric windows. Want rev counter. I will put air-con in it from GTV. I think the model I need therefore is a 1.4S.

Are there any other benefits to an SX that are really worth having? It would mean getting a 1.6 then.

 

[sediciRich]

'Modified shell' apart from door numbers there's no real difference.

 

[lewey]

'Modified shell' apart from door numbers there's no real difference.

At the carsfromitaly.net website there is a paragraph that says

"The second series of the Tipo arrived in 1993. A major overhaul of the product was most immediately recogniseable by its new grille. The main changes were concentrated on improving the safety of the car, with a heavily revised structure including side impact bars, deformable zones, height adjustable seatbelts, seatbelt pre-tensioners, energy absorbing steering wheel, airbags etc."

A picture is provided indicating the changes.

 

[sediciRich]

Press talk, loose the side impact bars and the 2 are unrecognisably different, picture shows crumple zones and the door bars. For example the subframes as pictured are identical. You can have some faith in what I say for sure I've done a couple of jobs with both types of car.

 

[lewey]

Thanks for the informed info Rich. There is a lack of cars for sale as it is, so better not be too choosy anyway! There are quite a few around according to DVLA, so must just be a dry period. Still ideally want a carb'd (inevitably 5 door) model. Want to buy to run for a bit to make sure I like the car in general.

 

[lewey]

Don't need Tipo 1.1 engine mount. Can use Bravo 1.2 mount of course. Will need air-con pump/alternator/power steering pump and pipes from the same. Just need to find a 1.2 Bravo with air-con at a scrappy. Not very common, but should be OK.

 

[sediciRich]

Could the bravo actually be a different option? How about a 145?

 

[lewey]

Could the bravo actually be a different option? How about a 145?

After the Tipo, every car based on it just gets heavier and heavier. I think anything heavier will tip the power-to-weight balance too near to lacklustre. I am already having serious misgivings that the finished project car will likely be over a tonne. Another non-scientific but important issue is I can't stand the Bravo/Brava to look at; that goes for most cars of that "jelly mould" era. In the case of the Alfa or others like the FIAT Coupe, they loose that sleeper appeal. I want something that is surprising when I want it to be, but like a normal car (in the 90s!) all the rest of the time. The Coupe begs for your attention and everyone expects an Alfa to be quick. I've had one Alfa (V6 166), but have stuck to FIATs because they have always excited me more.

I'm having a hard time imagining what the project will drive like at the moment. If it can be like the Uno, but quieter, slightly slower and more civilised and capable around corners when the road is a bit rough, I will be happy. I'm wondering whether to buy a Sedicivalvole to get a sort of marker.

Was looking at 156 front suspension earlier. Looks like it would all fit except for some pretty adventurous turret mods that are beyond my skills. Shame.

 

[sediciRich]

The 156 turret tops are pretty much just add ons, I would say stripping the paint of a the turrets and seeing the metal joins it could be tidily cut off, it would need some one to weld them to the tipo. Mobile welders are often available via the retro rides forum.

 

[lewey]

The 156 turret tops are pretty much just add ons, I would say stripping the paint of a the turrets and seeing the metal joins it could be tidily cut off, it would need some one to weld them to the tipo. Mobile welders are often available via the retro rides forum.

Well I will certainly investigate. A friend of mine is a fine welder, although he lives 100 miles away, so if I was confident it was doable I would be buying all the parts up front and bringing them all over to him with the idea of driving back on the new suspension.

 

[lewey]

Just to round this thread off, the performance concerns for amount of work involved and insurance cost being a little high (not compared to most people's it seems) did put me off going ahead with this in the end. Now doing an Uno instead. More predictable, but probably a better idea!

Mk1 Uno 1.4 T-Jet FIRE Turbo sleeper project