Technical 2008 Fiat 500 Diesel, electrical faults/starter motor issues.

[CazzyG]

Hi everyone,
I'm a newbie here and I've tried searching the forums a bit and I can find threads on starter issues, but no solutions! so here goes...
*In August we travelled to the South coast to buy a lovely little Fiat 500 for my daughter. It was a private sale, and sold as seen and it was all fine. Drove 150 miles back home, like a dream. Drove it here and there occasionally but not a lot as she's only learning to drive. Seemed a little tricky to start now and again - often took a couple of turns of the key to get it to start.
*September battery died and as we were outside a Halfords store, ended up buying a new battery from them.
* October the power steering started to fail intermittently.
*Car sat for a while, then in December a mechanic I know replaced the power steering motor with one from eBay. Car ran fine, so I took it away, then power steering failed AND it wouldn't start. He took it away, a few days later I got it back and he said he'd cleaned up some wires and that there was damp in the fuse box so he had dried that out too. He also did a service and took it for MOT while he had it.
*Power steering intermittently failing and starting issues still, stating issues especially when it had been driven/was warmed up. Got stuck in Sainsburys car park as it just would not start again.!! Had lost faith in 1st mechanic so I didn't go back to him.
*After reading on here about earth strap issues I tried the trick of a jump cable from Negative to a bit of metal on the engine and the little car roared into life!! Yayy!
*Took car to a different mechanic who cleaned up 1 earth strap and bypassed the other one with a new strap (as he said that was in an awkward place to actually remove and replace) Power steering issues seem cleared up, but still having issues with starting. still takes a few turns of the key to start it up, and once it's been driven will not start up at all, just makes a clicking noise. That mechanic said that if the problems persist that it would need an auto-electrician to check it out (but he didn't recommend anyone) or to just trade it in for a petrol one as he didn't know why we bought a diesel in the first place!

So far the power steering is ok, it's just the issue of getting the car to start - few turns of the key from cold and it will start, once driven it will not start up at all.

My daughter is heartbroken and can't really afford to trade it in for a different car, this cost her £2100, and so far about £300 for repairs, service and MOT, so she doesn't want to throw that all away.

I'm getting so desperate that I'm even contemplating taking it to our local Fiat dealer - but not sure we can afford their fees!

Any suggestions of what it may be would be greatly appreciated!
CazzyG

 

[steveras57]

Hi everyone,
I'm a newbie here and I've tried searching the forums a bit and I can find threads on starter issues, but no solutions! so here goes...
*In August we travelled to the South coast to buy a lovely little Fiat 500 for my daughter. It was a private sale, and sold as seen and it was all fine. Drove 150 miles back home, like a dream. Drove it here and there occasionally but not a lot as she's only learning to drive. Seemed a little tricky to start now and again - often took a couple of turns of the key to get it to start.
*September battery died and as we were outside a Halfords store, ended up buying a new battery from them.
* October the power steering started to fail intermittently.
*Car sat for a while, then in December a mechanic I know replaced the power steering motor with one from eBay. Car ran fine, so I took it away, then power steering failed AND it wouldn't start. He took it away, a few days later I got it back and he said he'd cleaned up some wires and that there was damp in the fuse box so he had dried that out too. He also did a service and took it for MOT while he had it.
*Power steering intermittently failing and starting issues still, stating issues especially when it had been driven/was warmed up. Got stuck in Sainsburys car park as it just would not start again.!! Had lost faith in 1st mechanic so I didn't go back to him.
*After reading on here about earth strap issues I tried the trick of a jump cable from Negative to a bit of metal on the engine and the little car roared into life!! Yayy!
*Took car to a different mechanic who cleaned up 1 earth strap and bypassed the other one with a new strap (as he said that was in an awkward place to actually remove and replace) Power steering issues seem cleared up, but still having issues with starting. still takes a few turns of the key to start it up, and once it's been driven will not start up at all, just makes a clicking noise. That mechanic said that if the problems persist that it would need an auto-electrician to check it out (but he didn't recommend anyone) or to just trade it in for a petrol one as he didn't know why we bought a diesel in the first place!

So far the power steering is ok, it's just the issue of getting the car to start - few turns of the key from cold and it will start, once driven it will not start up at all.

My daughter is heartbroken and can't really afford to trade it in for a different car, this cost her £2100, and so far about £300 for repairs, service and MOT, so she doesn't want to throw that all away.

I'm getting so desperate that I'm even contemplating taking it to our local Fiat dealer - but not sure we can afford their fees!

Any suggestions of what it may be would be greatly appreciated!
CazzyG

First thing id suggest is searching the forum to see if anyone local to you has MULTIECUSCAN and could plug it up and see if theres any error codes showing if not they might be able to check the parameters to check alls up to spec and maybe do a proxy allignment to ensure all the modules are in sync with each other! it gets a different sensor reading when cold than when its hot so theres a fair chance a sensor is failing intermitentlly!
dont let anyone diss you for choosing the diesel there in many ways better than the petrols no electrical ignition to go wrong, much better idle, no blinking stop start which is nothing but trouble!, and better torque at low revs and better gearing for longer journeys! best of luck with it!
Steve

 

[jackwhoo]

Next time it exhibits it's problem try the jump lead test again. Someone on here replaced an earth strap by fitting an additional strap in a slightly different position and it didn't work but rather caused extra problems.

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi everyone,
I'm a newbie here and I've tried searching the forums a bit and I can find threads on starter issues, but no solutions! so here goes...
*In August we travelled to the South coast to buy a lovely little Fiat 500 for my daughter. It was a private sale, and sold as seen and it was all fine. Drove 150 miles back home, like a dream. Drove it here and there occasionally but not a lot as she's only learning to drive. Seemed a little tricky to start now and again - often took a couple of turns of the key to get it to start.
*September battery died and as we were outside a Halfords store, ended up buying a new battery from them.
* October the power steering started to fail intermittently.
*Car sat for a while, then in December a mechanic I know replaced the power steering motor with one from eBay. Car ran fine, so I took it away, then power steering failed AND it wouldn't start.

My daughter is heartbroken and can't really afford to trade it in for a different car, this cost her £2100, and so far about £300 for repairs, service and MOT, so she doesn't want to throw that all away.

I'm getting so desperate that I'm even contemplating taking it to our local Fiat dealer - but not sure we can afford their fees!

Any suggestions of what it may be would be greatly appreciated!
CazzyG

Hi

With the price Im assuming this 500 is pre 2012 and high miles?

Ive had 3 of these engines..

One got hard to start.. I rigged up a 2nd earth cable.. made no difference.. it was a bad connection on the Power cable


These 1248cc engines are Very common.. just not in a 500

Panda and punto
Plus lots of Vauxhalls

Where are you based.. ?
150miles from a Southern coast leaves a few options..

Charlie - near the M4

 

[varesecrazy]

@CazzyG

Do tell us more

 

[CazzyG]

Next time it exhibits it's problem try the jump lead test again. Someone on here replaced an earth strap by fitting an additional strap in a slightly different position and it didn't work but rather caused extra problems.

Tried the jump lead trick and sadly it didn't work, just the clicking sound from under the engine.

 

[CazzyG]

Hi

With the price Im assuming this 500 is pre 2012 and high miles?

Ive had 3 of these engines..

One got hard to start.. I rigged up a 2nd earth cable.. made no difference.. it was a bad connection on the Power cable


These 1248cc engines are Very common.. just not in a 500

Panda and punto
Plus lots of Vauxhalls

Where are you based.. ?
150miles from a Southern coast leaves a few options..

Charlie - near the M4

It's a 2008, 63000 on the clock (61,000 when we bought it) I'm in Bedford,

 

[jackwhoo]

Hi,

Thanks for repeating the -ve jump lead test and letting us know result.

I was thinking about the clicking noise described and wondering if it has a bad power lead connection at the starter.

Then read @varesecrazy post about bad power cable he had .Sensible to get that checked and if not faulty then next step is check/replace starter motor.

I don't think this will be a disaster for you and your daughter and you will get this fixed soon .

Best wishes
Jack

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi again,

2 possible scenarios here

1, it cranks the engine but doesnt run the engine (doesnt fire )

2, it fails to crank the engine on the starter.. I believe you only have this ?

My diesel would always start cold.. then mess around when warm... ( I will try and add a pic for clarity..)

Basically you have 2 chunky cables bolted to the Battery.. Black and Red

That is the Power side of the cars Starting circuit

You have tested the Black..Negative

The RED goes to the Starter.. awkward to access.. lowdown at back of engine

I laid underneath my car
'(With the battery negative cable disconnected)

I looked around the starter for signs of the issue

RED cable Is tricky to follow the end of..

But that Braided cable looked pretty corroded.. I spent 5 minutes on that



Crawled out from under the car

Reconnected battery

It worked perfectly from that day on

 

[varesecrazy]

Fundamentals of the Starter circuit :

Battery power is key..its the ONLY power at this point

Then you need a Great circuit to pass that power through the starter

Engine is basically hanging on Rubber

So you Need that Chunky Black Earth cable

A Red Power cable.. just as Chunky


In the pics here you can see the Starter motor has a Braided ( 'plaited' ) short band going between the 2 parts of the starter motor.. this is what was stopping my circuit WHEN WARM

THIS IS WHAT I SLACKENED AND CLEANED... its obviously EARTHING the starter

2007 Panda problem with starter motor | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

Hi all, I wanted to get some feedback on a problem I have starting my 2007 Panda Dynamic Multijet Diesel. I've had a look through the forums but the posts I found with similar issues didn't answer my question. The problem is the car occasionally doesn't start after it's run for a while. - It...

www.fiatforum.com

Those old pics highlight the fact my memory wasnt A1

Also the Punto had a relatively hard life.... and the thread is for Panda 2004/12 .. as I said this isnt '500 tech'

 

[John202020]

Hi is it a lounge modle with Bluetooth?
If yes does the Bluetooth work?
Are you getting persistent flat battery after not driving for a few days but ok if driven every day?

 

[CazzyG]

Fundamentals of the Starter circuit :

Battery power is key..its the ONLY power at this point

Then you need a Great circuit to pass that power through the starter

Engine is basically hanging on Rubber

So you Need that Chunky Black Earth cable

A Red Power cable.. just as Chunky


In the pics here you can see the Starter motor has a Braided ( 'plaited' ) short band going between the 2 parts of the starter motor.. this is what was stopping my circuit WHEN WARM

THIS IS WHAT I SLACKENED AND CLEANED... its obviously EARTHING the starter

2007 Panda problem with starter motor | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

Hi all, I wanted to get some feedback on a problem I have starting my 2007 Panda Dynamic Multijet Diesel. I've had a look through the forums but the posts I found with similar issues didn't answer my question. The problem is the car occasionally doesn't start after it's run for a while. - It...

www.fiatforum.com

Those old pics highlight the fact my memory wasnt A1

Also the Punto had a relatively hard life.... and the thread is for Panda 2004/12 .. as I said this isnt '500 tech'

Thank you for the advice @varesecrazy I’ve had a friend recommend an auto electrician and when they come back to me I will show them this thread. Sadly I do not possess any tools for disconnecting the battery/loosening off the bolt on the starter myself.

 

[CazzyG]

Hi is it a lounge modle with Bluetooth?
If yes does the Bluetooth work?
Are you getting persistent flat battery after not driving for a few days but ok if driven every day?

It does have bluetooth, it does seem to work and thankfully doesn’t seem to be draining the battery. But I will try to get it checked out too.
Thank you for your advice.

 

[varesecrazy]

It does have bluetooth, it does seem to work and thankfully doesn’t seem to be draining the battery. But I will try to get it checked out too.
Thank you for your advice.

If the Blue and Me works.. your problem is under the bonnet


Does it just refuse to crank the engine...?

Or sometimes turns over but doesnt run??

 

[varesecrazy]

Thank you for the advice @varesecrazy I’ve had a friend recommend an auto electrician and when they come back to me I will show them this thread. Sadly I do not possess any tools for disconnecting the battery/loosening off the bolt on the starter myself.

That is basic mechanics.. a £40 an hour guys role..
not the £120 an hour one

 

[PuntoHowTo]

As others have suggested above it could very-well still be the earth strap.

The design of the multijet is badly designed, The earth connects to the battery negative terminal then goes down and bolts to the inner wing/body of the car. Then carries on down to the front of the gearbox, the main issue is the road salt and water sprays constantly on the front of the gearbox when the car is in use and the wire right at the bottom of the cable starts to corrode and the strands of wire break up. The cable can look fine but be badly corroded.

you can usually see this wire on the front of the gearbox if you stick your head under the front of the car and look up at the gearbox and you can reach and pull on the wire without tools. I would recommend having a good look and seeing if you can see if it is broken or damaged.

I know you have tried the jumper cable again but it is only as good as the connection you can get it to make so if the car won't start give the cable a good wiggle on both ends and make sure the jaws of the teeth are biting into the negative terminal and metal of the engine.

There is no reason fitting a second earth should cause any problems. I had on my 1.3 multijet punto, a second earth connected at the top of the engine between the body of the car and and a bolt on the top of the engine, this just helps improve the engine's connection to ground.

 

[CazzyG]

That is basic mechanics.. a £40 an hour guys role..
not the £120 an hour one

Thanks @varesecrazy I’ll see if I can find someone to look at it for me, I’m not going back to mechanic number 1 as he’s a miserable git! Number 2 might have another go for me, but he did seem to be done with it, I’ll have a word today and see what he says.
This is so frustrating as I’m sure it must be something simple!

 

[varesecrazy]

Thanks @varesecrazy I’ll see if I can find someone to look at it for me, I’m not going back to mechanic number 1 as he’s a miserable git! Number 2 might have another go for me, but he did seem to be done with it, I’ll have a word today and see what he says.
This is so frustrating as I’m sure it must be something simple!

So...

Which of the 2 starting issues does it show

Not cranking?

 

[CazzyG]

So...

Which of the 2 starting issues does it show

Not cranking?

Turn key, power comes on in car, dashboard lights up etc, turn key to ignition and it just clicks somewhere under the engine, after a few goes when cold it will fire up and drive fine, however When it’s warm it just won’t turn over, just the clicking sound. After many tries it occasionally doesn’t make the clicking sound.

 

[bugsymike]

Just a thought, is low battery voltage a problem caused by little use as you say daughter was learning to drive so maybe not using car enough to fully charge the battery, or perhaps the alternator is not doing it job.
As a very rough guide without any tools, at night in dark with the headlights on facing a wall , start the car up and rev slightly, you should see the headlights get brighter if alternator is working.
If lack of use is the problem maybe a suitable battery charger could be employed.