Technical 2006 ducato x244 puller type clutch won't fully disengage after renewal

[MCtechnics]

Hi everyone,

My name is Milan from Belgium and I'm new to this forum.

I'm in kind of a pickle the last couple of days, changing the clutch on my 2006 x244 2.3 jtd 5-speed. It's a puller type clutch, which gave me many headaches when removing the gearbox.
Thanks to this forum I found the solution, drilling a hole in the stater housing and knocking out the fork pin.

However, everything's back together now and the clutch doesn't seem to disengage fully. By that I mean, there is some function, but when fully engaging the clutch pedal in gear, the vehicle still moves. It's also impossible to change gears when the engine's running.

I've been thinking it could be the slave cylinder but it seems to be working fine and strongly so.

Anybody got any ideas?

Thank you very much!!

 

[bugsymike]

Hi everyone,

My name is Milan from Belgium and I'm new to this forum.

I'm in kind of a pickle the last couple of days, changing the clutch on my 2006 x244 2.3 jtd 5-speed. It's a puller type clutch, which gave me many headaches when removing the gearbox.
Thanks to this forum I found the solution, drilling a hole in the stater housing and knocking out the fork pin.

However, everything's back together now and the clutch doesn't seem to disengage fully. By that I mean, there is some function, but when fully engaging the clutch pedal in gear, the vehicle still moves. It's also impossible to change gears when the engine's running.

I've been thinking it could be the slave cylinder but it seems to be working fine and strongly so.

Anybody got any ideas?

Thank you very much!!

A common problem is if the clutch centre plate has been fitted wrong way around, they are often marked in German to indicate flywheel side.
Apart from that I assume the pull type release bearing correctly engaged in the clutch pressure plate on first operation by firmly pushing the lever arm to engage bearing into pressure plate circlip ring in opposite direction to normal operation of clutch arm.
Unlikely to be the clutch slave cylinder, but should be easy to check if it is getting full movement to the release arm.
The last one I did was on a 2005 Citroen Relay with the same set up but with a 2.8 engine and from memory was cable operated. I had to do this on my own outside the customers industrial unit in a snow storm which was fun!!!
Incidentally even the Citroen Dealer who I was on good terms with didn't have the proper extraction tool in those days, so with the owners permission as clutch was being totally replaced anyway , I "crow barred" the gearbox from the engine dragging the release bearing out of the clutch pressure plate, not something I would normally do, but solved the problem.
I have also done similar on RWD Iveco Daily's but as better designed, the release arm slid out of the bearing so no violence required, another reason I prefer Iveco also at 71 I am doing no more!

 

[MCtechnics]

A common problem is if the clutch centre plate has been fitted wrong way around, they are often marked in German to indicate flywheel side.
Apart from that I assume the pull type release bearing correctly engaged in the clutch pressure plate on first operation by firmly pushing the lever arm to engage bearing into pressure plate circlip ring in opposite direction to normal operation of clutch arm.
Unlikely to be the clutch slave cylinder, but should be easy to check if it is getting full movement to the release arm.
The last one I did was on a 2005 Citroen Relay with the same set up but with a 2.8 engine and from memory was cable operated. I had to do this on my own outside the customers industrial unit in a snow storm which was fun!!!
Incidentally even the Citroen Dealer who I was on good terms with didn't have the proper extraction tool in those days, so with the owners permission as clutch was being totally replaced anyway , I "crow barred" the gearbox from the engine dragging the release bearing out of the clutch pressure plate, not something I would normally do, but solved the problem.
I have also done similar on RWD Iveco Daily's but as better designed, the release arm slid out of the bearing so no violence required, another reason I prefer Iveco also at 71 I am doing no more!

Hey Bugsymike, thanks for your reply!!
I'm also starting to think I fitted the clutch plate the wrong way around. The plate itself had no writing on it, I definitely would've mounted it the right way the first time if it had

It's kind of counterintuitive these clutches, usually the side with the lip sticking out should face the gearbox, now after some research I found these puller type clutches need the lip to face the flywheel.

Oh joy, everything's gotta come apart again
I feel so stupid for getting this wrong, especially since I and my friend who assisted me are both automotive engineers... So much for common sense I guess.

Anyway, thanks you for your insight!!

Cheers

 

[bugsymike]

Hey Bugsymike, thanks for your reply!!
I'm also starting to think I fitted the clutch plate the wrong way around. The plate itself had no writing on it, I definitely would've mounted it the right way the first time if it had

It's kind of counterintuitive these clutches, usually the side with the lip sticking out should face the gearbox, now after some research I found these puller type clutches need the lip to face the flywheel.

Oh joy, everything's gotta come apart again
I feel so stupid for getting this wrong, especially since I and my friend who assisted me are both automotive engineers... So much for common sense I guess.

Anyway, thanks you for your insight!!

Cheers

As you say , normal way is fat bit of centre plate sits in pressure plate.
Strangely enough recently there was someone on Forum who had same issue, but caused by "fat bit" up against the flywheel bolts.
Can you check old clutch to confirm?
I have only come across those puller type clutches on some older Iveco Daily's and these Ducato's or their "badge engineered" Citroen and Peugeot versions.

 

[Communicator]

Hey Bugsymike, thanks for your reply!!
I'm also starting to think I fitted the clutch plate the wrong way around. The plate itself had no writing on it, I definitely would've mounted it the right way the first time if it had

It's kind of counterintuitive these clutches, usually the side with the lip sticking out should face the gearbox, now after some research I found these puller type clutches need the lip to face the flywheel.

Oh joy, everything's gotta come apart again
I feel so stupid for getting this wrong, especially since I and my friend who assisted me are both automotive engineers... So much for common sense I guess.

Anyway, thanks you for your insight!!

Cheers

Perhaps you can take some consolance from a saying quoted by my father many, many, years ago. "He who makes no mistakes makes (does) nothing."

 

[bugsymike]

Just a small thought, I assume gearbox didn't "hang/rest" on the clutch whilst installing, I know they are a heavy unit and certainly couldn't think about lifting one in on my own these days.

 

[MCtechnics]

As you say , normal way is fat bit of centre plate sits in pressure plate.
Strangely enough recently there was someone on Forum who had same issue, but caused by "fat bit" up against the flywheel bolts.
Can you check old clutch to confirm?
I have only come across those puller type clutches on some older Iveco Daily's and these Ducato's or their "badge engineered" Citroen and Peugeot versions.

Okay so I pulled the gearbox a second time, turns out the clutch plate was properly installed after all! After a lot of headache however I found the issue:
When installing my first clutch I didn't "click" the release bearing into the pressure plate until the gearbox was mounted back to the engine - the way the manual describes it. The idea is that you use the bearing actuator fork to gentility mate the release bearing to the pressure plate. That being said, it wouldn't go in of course, so I used brute force to make it do so. Hitting the fork with the heaviest hammer I could find.

Now it turns out, after disassembly and inspection, that I bent one of the receiving brackets used to connect the actuator fork.
This caused the fork to only pull on the release bearing on one side instead of two. Hence the "clutch pedal half way" feeling.

I did find it particularly disturbing and strange I wouldn't have checked the position of the clutch plate 10 times before I put everything back together. So it was by my error after all, just not the one I expected

Thanks for the replies guys, cheers!

 

[bugsymike]

Okay so I pulled the gearbox a second time, turns out the clutch plate was properly installed after all! After a lot of headache however I found the issue:
When installing my first clutch I didn't "click" the release bearing into the pressure plate until the gearbox was mounted back to the engine - the way the manual describes it. The idea is that you use the bearing actuator fork to gentility mate the release bearing to the pressure plate. That being said, it wouldn't go in of course, so I used brute force to make it do so. Hitting the fork with the heaviest hammer I could find.

Now it turns out, after disassembly and inspection, that I bent one of the receiving brackets used to connect the actuator fork.
This caused the fork to only pull on the release bearing on one side instead of two. Hence the "clutch pedal half way" feeling.

I did find it particularly disturbing and strange I wouldn't have checked the position of the clutch plate 10 times before I put everything back together. So it was by my error after all, just not the one I expected

Thanks for the replies guys, cheers!

Glad you sorted it.
I have been lucky that each time I was able to get the release bearing to locate correctly by moving the release arm firmly by hand to locate the bearing past the clip arrangement and into pressure plate.
Mind you the first ones I came across it on were the Iveco Daily's and a nice large access hole to check location of bearing, plus a lot easy job to do, being rear wheel drive but same engine design.