Technical 1996 fiat ducato 2.5tdi (sofim) turbo actuator question

[MrkT]

1996 fiat ducato 2.5tdi (sofim) turbo actuator.......lack of boost pressure.
i suspect the turbo actuator......it moves freely (with a spanner on it) so is not stuck. all hoses on thorough inspection,and the intercooler all look fine.
i don't want to remove the pipe off the top of the actuator and test with a vac guage as there is a small clip on the pipe (at arms length away) that i can't quite get at easily.(can probably get it off but not back on!)
anyway my question; should the actuator move "at all" if the engine is rev'd hard in neutral a couple of times?? (it doesn't)
or does it only move under boost when driving?
thanks in advance.

 

[bugsymike]

1996 fiat ducato 2.5tdi (sofim) turbo actuator.......lack of boost pressure.
i suspect the turbo actuator......it moves freely (with a spanner on it) so is not stuck. all hoses on thorough inspection,and the intercooler all look fine.
i don't want to remove the pipe off the top of the actuator and test with a vac guage as there is a small clip on the pipe (at arms length away) that i can't quite get at easily.(can probably get it off but not back on!)
anyway my question; should the actuator move "at all" if the engine is rev'd hard in neutral a couple of times?? (it doesn't)
or does it only move under boost when driving?
thanks in advance.

If you can move the spindle with a spanner, pull the vacuum pipe off , move the spindle one way,put your finger over the actuator pipe release the spanner and it should hold vacuum until you release your finger. Try both directions in case wrong way.
Often you will not see much movement until revved hard when exhaust pressure strongest usually when under load.

 

[MrkT]

If you can move the spindle with a spanner, pull the vacuum pipe off , move the spindle one way,put your finger over the actuator pipe release the spanner and it should hold vacuum until you release your finger. Try both directions in case wrong way.

Hi Mike,do you mean the small vac pipe on the turbo actuator? if so, that's the one that has a small clip on that's awkward to get at.

 

[Communicator]

My understanding is that Sofim 8140.47 engine in common with the later 2,8idTD, and 2.8jtd (8140.43, does not use vacuum controlled variable boost pressure. The turbo capsule is operated by air bled from the compressor section ot the "turbo". The capsule and wastegate function to limit the maximum boost pressure. If the engine has low boost pressure, then is it possible that the wastegate is moving freely? (I have read of brokem linkages, which may not be visible from underneath.) I may be wrong, but I expect the pressure sensing connection from the turbo to also be connected to the circular boost pressure housing on the top of the Bosch VE injection pump. Perhaps this would be a more convenient point to measure boost pressure. I do understand your reluctance to make contortions in order to access the boost pressure capsule.

 

[bugsymike]

Hi Mike,do you mean the small vac pipe on the turbo actuator? if so, that's the one that has a small clip on that's awkward to get at.

Yes, it's only a short pipe on those, if you can get one end off to blank and test with your finger.
This should be the same turbo but on an old Iveco Daily.

 

[MrkT]

My understanding is that Sofim 8140.47 engine in common with the later 2,8idTD, and 2.8jtd (8140.43, does not use vacuum controlled variable boost pressure. The turbo capsule is operated by air bled from the compressor section ot the "turbo". The capsule and wastegate function to limit the maximum boost pressure. If the engine has low boost pressure, then is it possible that the wastegate is moving freely? (I have read of brokem linkages, which may not be visible from underneath.) I may be wrong, but I expect the pressure sensing connection from the turbo to also be connected to the circular boost pressure housing on the top of the Bosch VE injection pump. Perhaps this would be a more convenient point to measure boost pressure. I do understand your reluctance to make contortions in order to access the boost pressure capsule.

Hi,thanks for that. the wastegate linkage is fine.(i can see from underneath and over the top of the sub frame it is well attached) it is this i attached a spanner to to move the actuator.

 

[bugsymike]

Hi,thanks for that. the wastegate linkage is fine.(i can see from underneath and over the top of the sub frame it is well attached) it is this i attached a spanner to to move the actuator.

That's good I have seen them with the spindle rusted solid.
Does my photo look the same ?

 

[MrkT]

That's good I have seen them with the spindle rusted solid.
Does my photo look the same ?

i can only see from underneath Mike.......on mine the turbo sits the other way. (i think) plus those clips would be far easier that the ones on mine......mine are the ones you use special pliers for to lock and unlock the clip........i have them,but one handed and arm outstretched is not ideal......but think im going to have to to get the vac pump on.

 

[bugsymike]

i can only see from underneath Mike.......on mine the turbo sits the other way. (i think) plus those clips would be far easier that the ones on mine......mine are the ones you use special pliers for to lock and unlock the clip........i have them,but one handed and arm outstretched is not ideal......but think im going to have to to get the vac pump on.

That's why I preferred my Iveco Daily's with the same engine in rear wheel drive format.

 

[MrkT]

No it is the same as your pic mike.......obviously from looking underneath and across it looked different in your pic. thanks at least i can see how the actuator is attached now.

 

[MrkT]

Do you know if the 2.5 and 2.8 shared the same actuator? looking online i cant find a replacement anyway!

 

[bugsymike]

Do you know if the 2.5 and 2.8 shared the same actuator? looking online i cant find a replacement anyway!

I had a 2.8 idt engine from a Fiat Ducato 1997 Maxi van with that set up that I waas able to tweak along with the injector pump to give more power in my boat. Sorry no pics of the turbo side.

 

[MrkT]

yes I've tweak the pump slightly also......quarter turn for mid,and half turn for low.......a very slight change,but no discernible boost so hard to tell.
I've cleaned the pickup filter in the tank.(it was dirty) then put on another new fuel filter. the turbo air inlet hose was slightly split so repaired that.(van did seem to run better after that and had some boost,but a week later it's flat!) checked all other hoses and the intercooler.....so i think the actuator. (obviously i could be wrong) i did run some injector cleaner through half a tank....could it be that that's made it worse??
i should add,the van runs clean (once warmed up) with no smoke.

 

[bugsymike]

yes I've tweak the pump slightly also......quarter turn for mid,and half turn for low.......a very slight change,but no discernible boost so hard to tell.
I've cleaned the pickup filter in the tank.(it was dirty) then put on another new fuel filter. the turbo air inlet hose was slightly split so repaired that.(van did seem to run better after that and had some boost,but a week later it's flat!) checked all other hoses and the intercooler.....so i think the actuator. (obviously i could be wrong) i did run some injector cleaner through half a tank....could it be that that's made it worse??

Don't think injector cleaner would have affected it.
Strangely I never adjusted the turbo diaphragm on top of injector, although you can see in photo the cap is off.
All my power increase came from adjusting the screw in centre between the injector pipes at pump to give black smoke , then I increased boost by adjusting at wastegate then more at injector pump followed by more at wastegate, until boats performance nearly was on a par with the 150hp petrol V6 I replaced it with and at 4 gallons to the hour of diesel instead of the 10 gallons to the hour of five star petrol and no smoke!
I got 26 knots against the petrol 30 knots when it was brand new.

 

[MrkT]

i took the cap off....4 screws. under there is the fuel inlet spigot attached to diaphragm.......it will have a mark on where it slid against a pin,you turn this a quarter turn to allow slightly more fuel at medium/high boost,the wheel underneath (has teeth on it) you turn a half turn to increase fuel at low boost. it made very little difference doing that (although there was some improvement) i think if i can sort this boost issue it will make a big difference. what you altered was the overall fueling......this is on boost only. i'm reluctant to mess around with the fueling more,as i need 100% reliability.(you'll have heard the horror stories of diesel fitters whacking the fueling up and months later the engine is knacked! (it can wash the bores of oil apparently) but a little tweak can't hurt!

 

[MrkT]

Don't think injector cleaner would have affected it.
Strangely I never adjusted the turbo diaphragm on top of injector, although you can see in photo the cap is off.
All my power increase came from adjusting the screw in centre between the injector pipes at pump to give black smoke , then I increased boost by adjusting at wastegate then more at injector pump followed by more at wastegate, until boats performance nearly was on a par with the 150hp petrol V6 I replaced it with and at 4 gallons to the hour of diesel instead of the 10 gallons to the hour of five star petrol and no smoke!
I got 26 knots against the petrol 30 knots when it was brand new.

when you turned the actuator up on your engine....do you shorten it for more boost and lengthen for less?

 

[bugsymike]

i took the cap off....4 screws. under there is the fuel inlet spigot attached to diaphragm.......it will have a mark on where it slid against a pin,you turn this a quarter turn to allow slightly more fuel at medium/high boost,the wheel underneath (has teeth on it) you turn a half turn to increase fuel at low boost. it made very little difference doing that (although there was some improvement) i think if i can sort this boost issue it will make a big difference. what you altered was the overall fueling......this is on boost only. i'm reluctant to mess around with the fueling more,as i need 100% reliability.(you'll have heard the horror stories of diesel fitters whacking the fueling up and months later the engine is knacked! (it can wash the bores of oil apparently) but a little tweak can't hurt!

Mine ran totally reliable for over four years, used Summer and Winter no problems Also no black smoke as provided the oxygen is increased to burn the extra diesel it will run cleanly.
I am positive if it was in a van it would have passed the MOT smoke test !!!
In my experience with older Sofim diesels it was where the revs were allowed to be higher, I have seen several of those engines with con rods hanging out of the block.
I got my max performance at under 4000 rpm, check the Bosch timing and revs gauge 3690 rpm and did it incrementally with the benefit of my 55 years in the motor trade, so not a cowboy set up!
Incidentally I changed the engine oil every year and it came out like clean cooking oil as I honed the bores and fitted new piston rings , so no diesel blow by, contaminating the engine oil.

 

[MrkT]

Mine ran totally reliable for over four years, used Summer and Winter no problems Also no black smoke as provided the oxygen is increased to burn the extra diesel it will run cleanly.
I am positive if it was in a van it would have passed the MOT smoke test !!!
In my experience with older Sofim diesels it was where the revs were allowed to be higher, I have seen several of those engines with con rods hanging out of the block.
I got my max performance at under 4000 rpm, check the Bosch timing and revs gauge 3690 rpm and did it incrementally with the benefit of my 55 years in the motor trade, so not a cowboy set up!

yes i know i didn't mean you Mike...........i meant us cowboys! (a little knowledge can be dangerous!)

when you turned the actuator up on your engine....do you shorten it for more boost and lengthen for less?

 

[bugsymike]

when you turned the actuator up on your engine....do you shorten it for more boost and lengthen for less?

If you look at the engine photo and zoom in on right you will see I fitted a permanent boost gauge so I could see exactly what I was doing as I increased the boost.
On those engine you shorten to hold the waste gate flap closed longer.

 

[MrkT]

If you look at the engine photo and zoom in on right you will see I fitted a permanent boost gauge so I could see exactly what I was doing as I increased the boost.
On those engine you shorten to hold the waste gate flap closed longer.

ok thanks mike.one last thing,when fitting a boost guage where did you tap into? (was it that short hose on the actuator?)