Punto (Mk1) 1994 Punto Cabriolet ELX 90

[Didge3]

Wow, that is low! I do wonder if 5th in my old mk2b 1.2 8v was overdrive, whereas 5th in your cabrio and my Grande is direct drive? Certainly, my mk2b was higher geared.

5th gear in the 1.6 Cabrio is 0.902 so a slight overdrive, however the final drive ratio is a very low 3.867 considering its a 1.6 on 14" wheels, the hardtop 1.6 Puntos have 5th as a much more realistic 0.808 overdrive and an even longer final drive 3.563. Understandably the Cabrio is heavier but I feel like such a vast change in gear ratios was stupid on Fiats part.

 

[puntofan01]

I see!

 

[blu73]

fiat... do something silly?? :nutter: surely not haha

You might considering making the rolling radius of the wheels larger to lengthen out the gears slightly. depends how bothered you are about it looking original though.. something 16" without really really low profile tyres looks ok (imo) on a mk1 - stick to factory fiat wheels and they tend to look more like they should be there.

few of the wheels found on new bravos, a couple of the 500 wheels would bith look decent i think, or the classic coupe 20vt wheels. I really like the coupe 16v wheels which do come in both 15 and 16 (15s on non turbo and 16s on turbo ones) they would look epic on a punto though i think, almost like they were made for it.
these ones..

And now i have written that i feel like i have posted almost this exact post on this thread before lol.

 

[Didge3]

fiat... do something silly?? :nutter: surely not haha

You might considering making the rolling radius of the wheels larger to lengthen out the gears slightly. depends how bothered you are about it looking original though.. something 16" without really really low profile tyres looks ok (imo) on a mk1 - stick to factory fiat wheels and they tend to look more like they should be there.

few of the wheels found on new bravos, a couple of the 500 wheels would bith look decent i think, or the classic coupe 20vt wheels. I really like the coupe 16v wheels which do come in both 15 and 16 (15s on non turbo and 16s on turbo ones) they would look epic on a punto though i think, almost like they were made for it.

And now i have written that i feel like i have posted almost this exact post on this thread before lol.

Yeah we talked wheels somewhere earlier in this thread since I dislike the ones already on the car... I'm a big fan of 20vt wheels, theres some local to me with tyres for cheap but they'd need repainting but I could have a go at that myself Need to sort out some funds first...

Anyway, did some motorway stints today,
Problems

1. Steering wheel vibration at 55-70mph
2. Car wants to go left when letting go of the wheel (minor)
3. Steering wheel vibrates significantly at idle?? Engine mounts?
4. Thermostat definitely gone (always suspected), in the hot weather we're having its warming up pretty slow, maintains temperature in traffic, drops to around 60-70C on the motorway

I'm hoping the vibration at speed in unbalanced tyres since it's sat on them for months without being moved often, I don't know of a way to check this myself though other than pay to have them balanced but if I were to do that I might as well just buy new tyres.

Car going left is most likely alignment, most of my cars have done this at some point or another, I'll get it done eventually

Steering wheel has significant vibration at idle, the car doesn't really shake but the steering wheel does, not really sure?

 

[Didge3]

Went out for the sole purpose of giving the brakes a workout. It stops, doesn't pull to either side under very hard braking so the brakes aren't warped or anything, I think the discs are pretty close to the end of their life, opinions on my discs please?

Before driving (sat overnight)







After driving with lots of heavy braking,





Theres some definite scoring toward the centre of the disc, and what I think looks like pitting in areas but I don't know if this is a very poor condition disc or just a worn out one that needs replacing soon?

The brakes will lock up the front wheels at about 15-20mph if you slam them on, it gets a bit upset if you brake hard mid corner, the car kind of wiggles or come out of balance if that makes sense?

Going to get new tyres tomorrow, the fronts are low on tread anyway (2-3mm left) and the wheel is shaking above 60mph so think they're out of balance.

 

[flisko]

it looks fat enough, i saw front discs that were almost as thin as a piece of paper

min front disc thickness = 9.2mm
pads 1.5mm

 

[blu73]

they aren't great but they will clean off with regular use, you really need to measure thickness and compare to minimum thickness - if they have the meat left on them i'd not worry, takes a while to clean them up properly from sitting for long period. They have pretty much no lip around the outer edge which heavily worn discs tend to have so i'd guess they have actually not got many miles on them. I would just leave them myself, will all bed back in and be fine imo.

any car will get unsettled if you brake hard mid corner lol so don't worry about that - do all your hard braking in straight line

 

[Didge3]

So I need a new wheel hub, see here

I've rang a couple of scrapyards nearby and none have a mk1 Punto in :bang:

So I've looked on ebay and found a couple but I have no idea if they're likely to actually fit, it seems they fit a long list of 90's Fiats.

I found a part number in ePER for a rear wheel hub but not one for the fronts so got no part number to go on, any ideas on these?

eBay Wheel hub 1

eBay Wheel hub 2

 

[varesecrazy]

So I need a new wheel hub, see [URL="https://www.fiatforum.com/leisure-lounge/44110

I found a part number in ePER for a rear wheel hub but not one for the fronts so got no part number to go on, any ideas on these?

part #2 = PILLAR

Anti-skid =ABS

SN = LHS

DN = RHS

 

[varesecrazy]

http://eper.fiatforum.com/eper/navi...INT_MODE=0&EPER_CAT=SP&WINDOW_ID=1&GUI_LANG=3

hope that opens..

 

[Didge3]

I believe that is what the wheel hub is connected to but it does not include the wheel hub itself....

 

[blu73]

you will need to replace the hub and bearing to sort it out.. You will fubar the bearing removing the hub.

as far as i know its same stuff across the range and the bearing kit (inc. snap ring, hubnut and bearing) is same as loads of other fiats, seicento, cinq, bravo/a and mk2 puntos.. Part no. 71714468

And the hub itself, part no. 7608131.

Here is the applicable pic from eper


It is totally impossible really without a press or some fancy expensive tools. What you will need to do is:
1. with car on ground and centre cap removed from wheel, car in gear and handbrake on firmly, get a socket on a breaker bar and crack the hub nut, just loosen it no need to take roight off now. Check it doesn't have a split pin, from memory it won't but if it does you will have to take wheel off and get that out first. But you will need the car on the ground to get the nut loose as it will be very very tight. You are not getting it undone with just a ratchet and socket!!
2. Now jack car up and axle stand etc and remove wheel.
3. disconnect the track rod end from the spindle.
4. separate the caliper from the spindle and get something to hold it, cable tie through one of the mounting holes and tie it round the road spring it is good solution
5. take the disc off and put to side
6. disconnect the spindle from the lower arm.
7. disconnect spindle from lower shock bolts
8. pull the spindle off the driveshaft - it will come off complete with hub and bearing etc

Take the spindle to a garage or mate with press etc. to get the new hub and bearing fitted in spindle. Take it back to the car and refit in reverse.

I would suggest maybe just changing the track-rod end and lower arm at the same time (ball joint in arm is not serviceable iirc) - you very possibly may damage the boots on them even if they are fine before you start. If you do though, crack off the track rod end keeper nut thingy before you take it all apart so the spindle can stop the how rod from spinning. Or of course be extra careful while dismantling and DO NOT use a wedge style splitter cause they 99.9% of the time tear the boots - thats how i separate the track rod and lower ball jopint myself though cause, as you know, i tend to just change everything when i take it apart haha..

Hope that makes sense, had few too many bevvy's to be bothered to read it back - but i'm allowed, its still my birthday for another hour yet Ahhhh

 

[blu73]

or, take a risk..... But you know they are gonna bve far far from new lol

drivers side

passenger side

 

[Didge3]

Managed to source brand new hub with the correct p/n from Ricambio
Can get the wheel bearing kit from them to.

Not going to fit it myself as undoubtedly I won't be able to remove the hub nut and basically every other stubborn bolt with my chicken arms and lack of decent tools
I know a friendly garage who I usually use for MOT's so will get it booked in there ASAP, for now I'll just have to drive carefully on my 3 bolts

 

[blu73]

It will be fine on 3 bolts until it goes to garage, don't sweat it.

 

[bluejohn125]

Your brake discs look fine for a while... my Brava 1.2 (ABS) has shocking-looking discs with lots of rusty patches... commented on in 2 x MOTs but the stopping is fantastic. I've got replacements ready but can't be bothered to fit them yet.

Sounds like your wheelbolt / hub adventures should come to an end soon, which is good. As mentioned by Blu, get the garage to have a really good pry around all suspension / steering bolts while it's up in the air and dismantled. And change your gearbox oil, it sounds like you use the box a lot!

What tyres did you go for? Same size or taller? Sometimes vibrations are caused by out-of-round tyres, which may not technically be out-of-balance.

4000rpm at 70 does seem high, I don't have a rev counter in my Tipo 1.4 but I's guess 3500 or so? Then again my sister had an Alfa 158 1.8 and that was a revvy, low-geared thing and you just accepted it as part of the character / design.

If you change the wheels then I'd try some 15"s first, bigger would look daft on a Mk1 Punto. 14" is really ideal...

 

[bluejohn125]

Nice alloys, 1" bigger overall diameter...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Brav...863454?hash=item281bf6fd9e:g:7SIAAOSwWTRWzDcr

 

[Didge3]

Your brake discs look fine for a while... my Brava 1.2 (ABS) has shocking-looking discs with lots of rusty patches... commented on in 2 x MOTs but the stopping is fantastic. I've got replacements ready but can't be bothered to fit them yet.

Good to know

What tyres did you go for? Same size or taller? Sometimes vibrations are caused by out-of-round tyres, which may not technically be out-of-balance.

Went for same size tyres since I only replaced the fronts and don't want different size from the backs And yeah by out of balance I really meant the tyres aren't perfectly round anymore from sitting so long, but saying out of balance is easier to understand.

4000rpm at 70 does seem high, I don't have a rev counter in my Tipo 1.4 but I's guess 3500 or so? Then again my sister had an Alfa 158 1.8 and that was a revvy, low-geared thing and you just accepted it as part of the character / design.

The engine is really quiet, you wouldn't think it was running at 4000 if you didn't have the tach, and I even have a small exhaust leak in the flexi joint, so without that if I were to just use my ear I would've guessed it be running at about 3300-3500 region, so you may be surprised what your Tipo is actually running at if you were to put a tach on it, although I doubt it has the same gearing.

 

[Didge3]

So we've done just over 500 miles since getting back on the road, brakes are well and truly back in order. Engine pulls well and hasn't consumed any oil in 500 miles so that's a good start
Getting used to the gearing a bit more although even though the engine is spectacularly quiet despite the fact you're running close to 5000rpm at 80mph (on a private road of course) it does seem a little harsh on the engine for prolonged periods...

Fuel gauge is even more useless than the one in my old Panda, swings about when going up and down hills, round roundabouts and never sits in the same spot for more than about 30 seconds even whilst traveling on a flat surface in a straight line so I never know much fuel I have :bang: Although I feel like its drinking quite a lot of it, doubt I'm getting more 40mpg out of it

Not sure if it was there before but there is quite a large quantity of oil down on the subframe just behind the gearbox, the clutch cable and steering rack area are damp with oil? Can't see where its coming from as there is no obvious path for it to get there? Will clean it up and check again if it comes back

 

[simon_16vpunto]

Lol my fuel gauge does that. Will show a quarter tank but if I take a corner it goes to empty and the light comes on