Tuning 1368 16v FIRE Turbo fast road Panda

[lewey]

She look's great with O.Z wheels.
Good luck Lewey!!!

Cheers. I actually prefer the profile of the tyre which make for a slightly larger rolling radius as it fills the arch better than the slightly under-sized looking standard combo.

I thought I would describe how to fit 500 sets to a Panda. It's pretty easy, but might help others to make the leap.

The 500 and Panda seat rails are very similar. The only difference is the outside rear mount that is bolted to the side of the sill. This is a quite different design on the 500s. To get round this, you remove the Panda mount and the 500 mount by any means you can (angle grinder/drill for me). You then bolt the Panda mount on the 500 seat rail. Holes line up as the base mech and rails are essentially the same parts of course.

I thought at first that there may be an elegant solution that would involve removing the one rail from one and placing on the other. I ruined the rail mech trying this; it is not worth it, don't try it. You could of course remove the whole base/mech from the Panda seat and put on the 500 seat. This would work and be fairly straight forward, but you will lose some functionality depending on the seat. In the case of the Abarth seat, you will lose the ability to fold it quickly for example.

 

[R1NGA]

This is really useful - thanks lewey! Might just tackle this myself next, assuming I can find a pair of seats from a 500 Abarth of course.....

Phil

 

[Golgarth]

This is really useful - thanks lewey! Might just tackle this myself next, assuming I can find a pair of seats from a 500 Abarth of course.....

Phil

and thus all Fiat Abarth seats have now doubled in price as we all search the bay for some ............

I LOVE the £1500 ones, wonder if it is possible to swing them in without the missus knowing

 

[Marc100HP]

Do you have Abarth 500 brakes mounted to the front or do you want to mount them?

 

[lewey]

Do you have Abarth 500 brakes mounted to the front or do you want to mount them?

This sounds like a loaded question. I intend to mount A500 brakes along with the the whole front suspension setup, which I will do the same time as the rear suspension when I have finished sourcing the parts. That way I will only have to bleed brakes once.

I have fitted an A500 front brake to one of the 500 hubs I have and checked clearance with standard 15" wheels and that is as far as I have got.

 

[lewey]

Picked up another rear 500 axle the other day and got round to stripping the ones I have down and checking all the bits fit on it. Its from a late 2010 drum brake model that has done 1000 miles or something tiny.



The other axle in the photos is from a 2009 1.4 also with very low miles, so all a joy to take apart, including the brake pipes.

The newer part has the anti-roll bar of course and is made with quite obviously thinner plate as a result. I expect it weighs the same or less than the non-ARB part. If these were both disc or drum models, there would be no other differences when could guess now. But these are different brake types so the differences otherwise are simply two brackets on each side. One small one is welded in a different position than the disc type to hold the handbrake cable as it leaves the axle area, but can be bent to accommodate the different cable for the discs. The other bracket is riveted on and can simply be drilled out and put on the drum brake part. See photos with holes on new parts already.



Last photo demonstrates the disc hub on the new part. I think if there is any difference between this beam part and the Abarth 500, it will be that the A500 one is made of slightly thicker plate perhaps due to the overall increase in weight of the car. Probably though it is actually no different other than a bracket or something.

Anyway, net result is that I have a standard 500 axle, mint drum brakes with all fittings and cables and shortly a higher mileage whole Panda 100HP axle with discs. The discs and callipers are the same part for all Panda/500 models that have them, but hubs are engineered to increase track by an inch on each side in the 500 models.

 

[lewey]

Wow, I was tired when I wrote the last post. Think you catch my drift though. The last paragraph describes what I have left over as spares if anyone wants them. Not for free, but cheap.

Fitted an A500 gear knob and handbrake a minute ago. Had to utterly destroy the old gear knob to remove and required an M5 tap on the top of the Panda gear shaft to secure the new one to as it is not an interference fit. Handbrake is straight swap and very easy to do.



This is the last bit of pimping I'm going to do for a while until a 500 sport steering wheel and airbag come up for a good price. Just the serious business of making it go faster now. Think I've got all the bits to start apart from a drivers side 500 (1.4) hub/upright and driveshaft. A bit of sun would be nice too.

 

[306maxi]

Now you just need to fit Blue&Me

 

[lewey]

Now you just need to fit Blue&Me

Although I realise you're joking, I have got a blue & me unit actually. I was looking at the wiring and it isn't that bad, but without proper support from the Panda ECUs, it would have limited use for me. I can already use my phone with the car via bluetooth and I have an iPod lead that plugs in. Not really sure what the b&m system would actually bring to the table in real terms for me.

 

[306maxi]

Although I realise you're joking, I have got a blue & me unit actually. I was looking at the wiring and it isn't that bad, but without proper support from the Panda ECUs, it would have limited use for me. I can already use my phone with the car via bluetooth and I have an iPod lead that plugs in. Not really sure what the b&m system would actually bring to the table in real terms for me.

I was only partly joking For me B&M is one of the biggest reasons to get a 500 over a Panda

 

[lewey]

Fair enough. I could certainly install it, but there would be no display support on the dash. Is it entirely navigable by audio and speech commands? If it is usable like that, then it could be a goer.

 

[pdtrewern]

What a lovely knob.

 

[306maxi]

Fair enough. I could certainly install it, but there would be no display support on the dash. Is it entirely navigable by audio and speech commands? If it is usable like that, then it could be a goer.

It's mostly useable with voice commands, I have to say I wouldn't want to just use it with voice commands though so I suspect it's going to be somewhat of a non-starter.

 

[laverda]

Wow, I was tired when I wrote the last post. Think you catch my drift though. The last paragraph describes what I have left over as spares if anyone wants them. Not for free, but cheap.

Fitted an A500 gear knob and handbrake a minute ago. Had to utterly destroy the old gear knob to remove and required an M5 tap on the top of the Panda gear shaft to secure the new one to as it is not an interference fit. Handbrake is straight swap and very easy to do.



This is the last bit of pimping I'm going to do for a while until a 500 sport steering wheel and airbag come up for a good price. Just the serious business of making it go faster now. Think I've got all the bits to start apart from a drivers side 500 (1.4) hub/upright and driveshaft. A bit of sun would be nice too.

What about the reverselock system on the gearknop and is'nt the Abarth 500 only with a 5 speedgearbox ?

 

[lewey]

What about the reverselock system on the gearknop and is'nt the Abarth 500 only with a 5 speedgearbox ?

There is currently no restriction on gear lever movement. I've only put the knob on the old system, it doesn't restrict you from selecting a 6th gear. Nor would the Abarth gear lever and system, if you had a 6th gear to select. If you were keen, you could improvise something from the old system to keep the reverse protection working, but I haven't bothered at the moment. I am fitting a 5 speed gearbox soon which means I won't be pulling the gear lever towards 6th gear and the chance of reverse. I've had many FIATs that don't have the reverse "protection" as standard, like old Pandas for instance and my Uno.

 

[R1NGA]

As an aside lewey - how are you getting on with those 500 Abarth seats? I'm keen to get something more comfortable and supportive in my 4x4 and am still on the lookout for some like yours.

Thanks,

Phil

 

[306maxi]

As an aside lewey - how are you getting on with those 500 Abarth seats? I'm keen to get something more comfortable and supportive in my 4x4 and am still on the lookout for some like yours.

Thanks,

Phil

Have you considered 500 sport or leather seats?

 

[R1NGA]

No, actually, I hadn't. But of course they might also be a good upgrade. I will see what FleaBay has on that front.

Thanks,

Phil

 

[lewey]

No, actually, I hadn't. But of course they might also be a good upgrade. I will see what FleaBay has on that front.

Thanks,

Phil

Support-wise, none of them are brilliant. I'm finding the Abarth seats are as comfortable as the original 100HP seats, perhaps a bit more so because the back arches forward to meet the back of my head quite nicely. I mostly just think they really look the part and I don't like leather, so they are the best choice for me I think.

 

[lewey]

This project is not dead! I am still collecting parts and busying myself with finishing the Uno.

Have decided that the C514R diesel Panda/500 box may not be the right solution. It it neat and quick to install, but I am concerned about clutch strength. When people slightly tune their Multijets, they get clutch slippage and they are the strongest clutches FIAT make at that size. There are some 3rd party "performance" clutches, but none are ready for 180lb/ft. It basically means going for a custom item which IMO isn't worth it due to risk and cost. There is also a concern over long-term reliability of the C514 box with the power.

My solution is to move to the C510 gearbox like the A500 has and keep the standard T-Jet clutch which is known to be OK with the power. It does mean collecting more A500 parts to mount the box, but that is still cheaper and easier I reckon. Hardest part to get is the FIRE bell housing as that means getting an A500 or GP 120 box which is basically £500 or more when they do come up. As I already have a couple of C510 boxes from my Uno experiments, I decided to buy a new bell-housing on it's own and make my own box with the ratio I want, which will be higher than a standard A500 due to the power increase.



Should be securing suitable drive shafts tomorrow. I just need the gearbox mounts and clutch slave/pipe then. May need engine mount too as the engine is possibly closer to wing than N/A 1.4. Anyone know? Sounds like Stanford Hall is going to be a reconnaissance mission!