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Tuning 1.4 8v Seicento

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Tuning 1.4 8v Seicento

Ouby

Ouby

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Anyone out there built a (non-turbo) 1.4 8v?
Desperate for information that will enable me to finish this project -without it costing an arm & a leg! Please bear in mind i know very little about the later Fiats.
Car is Soozukisteves old unfinished project, a 2001 Sei Abarth fitted with a 2006 Grande Punto 1.4 8v, orig loom, sensors (apart from cam), ECU, TB, injectors, unknown fuel pump (464 757 19).
It's running (my daily driver) but of course it's not perfect (flashing emission light on deceleration & over 60mph).
Will it work as it should if i obtain 1.2 8v ECU, loom, inlet, injectors etc?
What parts are common between the Mk3 1.4 & the Mk2 1.2's?
 
Rather than trying to overcome the problems of a 1.1/1.4 hybrid i was hoping i could make it a 'stock' 1.4 (if u know what i mean) by using 1.4 ECU, loom, inlet, TB, injectors, dash, fuel pump etc.
Is this theoretically possible?
From other threads i know that the 1.4 inlet won't fit & that i need to machine a TB to 48mm.
 
From what I know, the 1.2 8V MPI ECU (IAW 8F/18F) does a reasonable job on this engine, but do not expect perfect running. One other thing (yes I know you are not interested in turboing) - this engine apparently does not like turbos so much. We had two of them in PL community, one is a history after a short life (one of the valves broke off and massacred the engine, still have pictures somewhere), one other also had constant problems, but I do not know any details in the second case.
 
Can-bus??, fly-by-wire??? I'm still trying to find the carb on this car, just think of me as part Amish & ur in the right ball park! :)
Woj- what year/model is the 8F/18F? Excuse my ignorance i only know IAW59F.M1/2/3. Would a 1.2 16v ECU have wider parameters to allow more fueling etc?
1.2 8v or 16v parts WILL be much easier to find, anyone have any idea what inlet/injectors would work best?
 
On the car that this came off, the throttle is controlled by the ECU. You press the accelerator, it sends a signal to the ECU - the ECU sends a signal to a motor and that motor moves the throttle plate. That is fly by wire.

Carb? lol

CANBUS is the name given to the interconnecting of ECUs on a car. A modern car has many ECUs, dash, climate, ABS, airbag, gearbox etc etc - they all interconnect and talk via CANBUS.

Even if you got the ECU from the donor car, it's not going to like not having the other ECUs connected on the CANBUS. It will require more bodging.

As has been said, the only way to do this 'properly' is use aftermarket. If you want some pointers in ripping the stock stuff to bits, checkout lewys 1.4 16v Panda threads in the panda section.
 
OK, I am not sure I can explain it shortly and so that you can understand, but here is a try:

Old, pre EUROX era, ECUs are:

IAW 16F from Fiat SPI 1.1/1.2 8V engines (to ca. 1998 or so)
IAW 18F/8F from Fiat MPI 1.2 8V engines (also to ca. 1998/99), for example Punto I 75 or Palio 75.
IAW 18FD from Punto I 1.2 16V engines (not sure whether this engine/ECU configuration was ever used in another Fiat model).

What this family shares is the ECU connector and most of the wiring. They are simple (which is good), not live-remappable (well, this is not true either, but let's skip the story for now, do a search on the forum if you really want to know). The bottom line is, most of the swapping within this family of engines is quite easy wiring-wise. The 18FD ECU is distinctive because it works in half-sequential fueling mode, others are SPI or MPI full group.

Then came new generation EURO-something ECUs, full sequential fueling, two lambda sensors, knock sensor, etc. These will be the MF models but also others. They (some of them) are live-remapable according to some people, though I am still to meet a person that can do it (properly) and not just claim it can be done. Some of these ECUs have also deep integration into other car components and are more electronised than really necessary. CAN-bus giving readings from all components in the car and fly-by-wire, which is an electronic sensor at your gas pedal giving readings to the ECU, which then steers the throttle body equipment.

Now, what you need to figure out is what kind of wiring you have in the engine bay, which sensors/equipment has been swaped over from the 1.4 8V engine and which stayed from the original Sei engine. And which ECU was orginally mounted in the car and which ECU is currently running the engine. You say in your first post orig loom & sensors, but I am not sure what orig refers to.

A different story is getting rid of the immobilizer when swapping ECUs around...
 
OK, i'm with you so far....
-but wouldn't anybody like to build a barn instead? Sorry, the Amish in me coming out again.
Woj everything (apart from the cam sensor) is from the 1.1 MPI (2001) Sei, so ECU =wing mounted IAW59F.M1, two lambda's, knock sensor etc.

So if i read this right my best options are to remap the existing M1, or get a M2/3 which might work better & get it 'virginised' (assuming that this will allow it to accept the airbag ECU etc). If necessary things such as swapping transponders between keys wouldn't be an issue, i do have access to a LP injection moulding machine, in fact i installed it (& u all thought i was a Luddite).
Given what i paid for the car & that it's only a 8v an aftermarket ECU wouldn't be cost effective (if it was a 16v that would be another matter).

Arc- is Lewys/Lewy his screen name? Unable to find 1.4 8v posts in either Panda Forum.
 
Aftermarket/standalone is always a solution, but it equals full rewiring of the car and programming the thing by somebody that knows his way around.

Yes, you are correct as far as I can tell. Your best option is to find somebody that can make the ECU run the engine properly. This however is not going to be easy and if you find a person that knows how to do it he is not going to be cheap either. Or, if cheap I would not trust the work (but I do have trust issues ;)). That is all provided your ECU is remapable (don't ask me here, my deep knowledge about Fiat ECUs ends around 1999, the newer ones I am only now starting to study, you will have to wait another 2-4 years for me to catch up).

Your other choice is to replace most of the engine equipment (inlet manifold with sensors/actuators) to the stuff from an old 1.2 MPI 8V engine and run it with an old 18F/8F ECU. This is a lot of wiring work (also mechanical) again and without a guaranteed result, and then here we go back to the first point - since you need to rewire, why not standalone aftermarket system.

And that is putting aside the side components - ABS, Airbag, etc. Never had time to figure out how this is all integrated in an MPI Sei.

The bad news is that you are generally in a very difficult configuration situation. Swapping anything into an MPI Sei is difficult, especially an engine that comes from the new era car. A 1.4 8V into an MPI Sei is something new to me and believe you me we do have some weird setups back in PL where I originally come from.
 
2-4 years!
Lucky then that i have a friend of a friend who's meant to be a wiz with remapping ECU's :)
Despite the fact that it's not running anywhere near its full potential i find it a vast improvement over the 1.1
(1.1 drivers please don't take offence- that's just my opinion).
Not exactly a fire breather like the 16v's, but plenty of torque- sometimes i have to change gear more than once on a journey!

BTW a loom change of some sort is required, i've patched up all the damaged sections i've found but there are probably more.

I guess the way forward is to improve on the TB/injection/inlet manifold set-up (currently 1.1 MPI) & then get a re-map. Which brings me back to one of my original line of thoughts...
Which inlet & injectors should i fit? 1.2? 8v or 16v?
 
You,re going to struggle ith the inlet manifold, although folk have extensively re-modled it with (a fuel resistant) resin and GRP.

Not sure which 8v inlet mani you have. This will have an impact on which injectors you can use without messing about with the fuel rail. The common choice for a TB for modified 1.4s is the 48 dello'orto off a K Series engine, but people have, I think, used Brava/Bravo ones as well.
 
Just a thought here guys, wouldnt it be easier to just fit a 1.1 or 1.2 head on the 1.4 block? volume/percentage wise, the increase from a 1242 to 1368 cc is smaller then from 1108 to 1242, so a 1.2 ECU/head combo should be able to handle it i think.

Keeping the 1108 head would be restrictive though, i think a properly prepared p75 head should do OK for a 1368 block.
 
I've got a 1.2 8v head sat on an over-bored 1.2 16v block that displaces a touch over 1400cc. It all goes together but is a mix and match of parts from 8v and 16v engines.

From what I saw of the more detailed parts of the development was that the FIRE heads should fit any FIRE block but the pulleys do not necessarily line up.

For the sake of messing around trying to get a plastic inlet manifold altered what do you get? You might as well just get an alloy one welded up
 
WOW, some interesting suggestions here. Still trying to learn all i can about injected Fiats so i will have to take time to think about all your ideas.
More at home with the Mini A & A+ series.
Bit limited on time so please don't take offence if i don't respond to any posts immediately, believe me i will have read & appreciated the info.

Busy de-gungeing yesterday, that's the coolant system NOT me personally.
Old coolant wasn't too bad, but did manage to soak the top/back of the engine with water.
Today....
engine management light ISN'T PERMANENTLY ON.
& no i haven't taken out the bulb!

It does flash on acceleration/deceleration & anything over 55mph.
Been told it will flash if Lambda's seeing signals outside of it's set limits (& it's only a 1.1 ECU of course), but WON'T log it as a fault. Maybe someone can verify if this is true/false.
So either-
1. I've insulated whichever damaged sensor cable was causing problems & the fault code has timed out (150 miles since a phonic relearn).
2. The ECU has given up reminding me.
3. I need to give the engine a blanket bath every month.

Lashed up an earth lead for the throttle body today, i imaging it should have had one (will do it properly tomorrow), & will start checking all earthing points in the next few days.
 
ycming said:
Why you not considering the 1.4 16v instead?

Ming
Click to expand...
The car came with the 8v, please bear in mind this isn't a project car -it's a daily driver & needs to remain so (one project on the drive, & my 'nut & bolt' rebuilt Mini in the garage waiting to be recommissioned after laying it up for a couple of years).
Bought the Sei with full knowledge that it wasn't 100%, but it's still a wonderful car to drive compared to my old SPI Cinq Sporting....
BUT it could be so much better :bang:


Regarding my earlier post about the Engine Management light....
******s!, ******s!, ******S!!!!!
Came back on after 5mins this morning????! Now permanent again.
Thought flooding the top/back of the engine with water & the light going out was merely synchronicity, now i'm not so sure. Tried the obvious- improving the engine earthing & clearing the fault code by unplugging ECU for 2 hrs but the light remained on. Anyone any ideas why getting the engine bay wet seems to overcome whatever it's seeing as a fault?
 
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