Technical Induction Modifications

S-X-I · Jan 31, 2009

Forgive me if this doesn't make any sense, doing a bit of thinking out loud here.

After having my car on the Rolling Road and achieving 104bhp it got me thinging about improving the air flow into the car.

Now I know people will say get a GSR Kit but for me the design is flawed so its not worth the risk IMO.

I had a look around the engine bay to see where everything was linked up to and noticed the pipe leading to the air box points out toward the front bumper and not directly into fresh air.

(circled)

That got me thinking of how to improve this.

Now the top part of the front center grill is not 'open' like the lower half.

So a solution to this would be to 'open-up' a section of the upper grill so that fresh air would be going directly to the pipe leading towards the air box.

(circled)

So what does everyone think?

A worth while modification?

trackdayqueen · Jan 31, 2009

The thing is don't you have a feed underneath that in the slat part of the grille?

I honestly don't think you'll notice any appreciable difference if you do that.

dipole · Jan 31, 2009

A lot of the modern cars I've lifted the bonnet on have been very well designed and with stock air filter and pipe in place they are getting as much air as they need. I don't think my Panda would benefit from anything more than a panel filter and I wouldn't dream of fitting an induction pipe as the road outside flooded a few months ago and I wouldn't want to be stranded in floods for fear of a hydralic lock. A fair few cars got hydralic locks that day. Peugeot 206 and last Model Passat seemed to be worst affected.

HP · Jan 31, 2009

As I understand it, as standard it draws in air from in front of the radiator rather than behind so on the move there should be enough ambient air forced in. Might be interesting to see if it made any difference though.

PNL · Jan 31, 2009

HP. said:
Might be interesting to see if it made any difference though.

Already done it and it does..

trackdayqueen · Jan 31, 2009

PNL said:
Already done it and it does..

What kind of difference does it make?

PNL · Jan 31, 2009

trackdayqueen said:
What kind of difference does it make?

Engine is more responsive Lauren..it gets more air to my new induction kit I have developed for the 1.2 panda..but thats on the move and not at traffic lights

..and the air hits the filter smack in the middle..mined you some credit must also go to the stainless exhaust system that's fitted on my 1.2 as well ..good torque increase from that before I did the induction..but both together have given the engine far greater flexibility and a modest increase in power..

S-X-I · Jan 31, 2009

PNL said:
Already done it and it does..

So a worth while modification then?

Even with the standard airbox?

jnoiles · Feb 1, 2009

S-X-I said:
Now I know people will say get a GSR Kit but for me the design is flawed so its not worth the risk IMO.

As a curiosity, why do you say it's flawed? I'm not interested in starting an argument, I'm just curious what the reasoning is?

cheers
J

S-X-I · Feb 1, 2009

jnoiles said:
As a curiosity, why do you say it's flawed? I'm not interested in starting an argument, I'm just curious what the reasoning is?

cheers
J

Its positioned at the bottom right hand side of the engine bay close to the ground.

We have already had someone on the forum having to have an engine re-build due to water injestion and I feel that it would be exposed to too much dirt and muck and would need cleaning very regularly.

Its been argued more times that I care to mention so please don't turn it into another one lol

PNL · Feb 1, 2009

S-X-I said:
So a worth while modification then?

Even with the standard airbox?

I think so ..yes..and it costs you nothing..

You might also want to consider the use of a better flowing panel filteras well such as the novitec one or the one that HP has in his..

HP · Feb 1, 2009

jnoiles said:
As a curiosity, why do you say it's flawed? I'm not interested in starting an argument, I'm just curious what the reasoning is?

cheers
J

I personally don't believe it's getting the full benefit of the kit as it is quite panelled in where the GSR filter sits, meaning it's not going to draw just cold air in.

RobW · Feb 1, 2009

also if the inlet tract is too long it can actually lose power

manufacturers spend lots of time designing and testing intakes and it's not as simple as packaging something to fit

a cold air feed is essential, no good having the filter in a stagnant location or even worse above the hot exhaust

PNL · Feb 1, 2009

RobW said:
also if the inlet tract is too long it can actually lose power

manufacturers spend lots of time designing and testing intakes and it's not as simple as packaging something to fit

a cold air feed is essential, no good having the filter in a stagnant location or even worse above the hot exhaust

Just as this guys says..a lot of R&D goes into making one..

trackdayqueen · Feb 1, 2009

RobW said:
a cold air feed is essential, no good having the filter in a stagnant location or even worse above the hot exhaust

I always hear a lot about how important it is to have a cold air feed, though thinking about it, what temperature is the air warmed to by the time it gets into the combustion chamber?

By that I mean the temperature of the engine has to be what 80 degrees C or something like that, so if air coming through the induction piping is say 4 degrees warmer due to a lack of cold air feed what difference does it really make?

Also just to add to this, years ago I had massive heatsoak problems with my intercooling on my old supercharged MR2. To cut a long story short I found that only when the air coming out of the IC outlet went above 70 degrees C did performance start to noticably tail off. So I do wonder how important a cold air feed is in the scheme of things.

HP · Feb 1, 2009

You can feel a big difference on a Cento with a GSR kit if you fit a cold air feed, especially noticed at part throttles.

S-X-I · Feb 1, 2009

PNL said:
I think so ..yes..and it costs you nothing..

You might also want to consider the use of a better flowing panel filteras well such as the novitec one or the one that HP has in his..

Might look into it a bit more then.

You could do it free of cost but I might look at getting some new hoses so that it effectivly becomes a cold air feed.

HP · Feb 2, 2009

trackdayqueen said:
I always hear a lot about how important it is to have a cold air feed, though thinking about it, what temperature is the air warmed to by the time it gets into the combustion chamber?

By that I mean the temperature of the engine has to be what 80 degrees C or something like that, so if air coming through the induction piping is say 4 degrees warmer due to a lack of cold air feed what difference does it really make?

Also just to add to this, years ago I had massive heatsoak problems with my intercooling on my old supercharged MR2. To cut a long story short I found that only when the air coming out of the IC outlet went above 70 degrees C did performance start to noticably tail off. So I do wonder how important a cold air feed is in the scheme of things.

Knew I'd read about this somewhere before, finally remembered.

On a ***troen Paxo, Pipercross developed a proper cold air intake system called the Viper:
http://www.pipercross.net/fastroad/products_viper.asp
Remember reading a rolling road shootout in one of the Max Car/Fast Power type mags where they back to back tested about 8 cars. The Viper system made a considerable improvement over a cone filter sitting in the engine bay.

Tom100hp · Feb 2, 2009

it would as cold air is very inportant on cold day you can even notice the dif

Tom100hp · Feb 2, 2009

on the piece of plastic intake at front grill what does everyone think the small chambers are on the right angle piece, thought may be to slow up air flow or something like that??

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