Northern Auto Tech - ECU and Blue & Me Repairs

Technical Water leaking into boot

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Technical Water leaking into boot

Pugglt Auld Jock said:
We bought "Becky" (2010 Panda Dynamic Eco 1.2) shortly after the turn of the year and almost right away realised that water was leaking into the boot. I was fortunate enough to get her for a very good price so was not particularly surprised that the dealer (quite a small concern) whilst not being unpleasant about it, was not interested in doing anything about it. I browsed our forum and found quite a few entries on the subject, mostly from people who were not succeeding in curing the problem! As there were other, more urgent things to do (timing belt etc) I decided to just mop up as needed and come back to it later. Then the good weather came and it wasn't raining and we were going on holiday so it got put back again!? Last few days though the rain is back and the boot floor is swimming! So better try to track it down before winter sets in!

First I emptied out everything in the boot and found that the boot liner which sits on top of the spare wheel was soaking wet around the pull strap and foam pad which rests against the rear panel (just below the lock)

View attachment 193348

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The boot floor had a good couple of sponge fulls of water in the wheel well

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Which I cleared out. This was just after one night of moderate rainfall

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I had a really good look and feel round the boot and under the rear seat. Below the rear window seals etc, etc. All dry but as I was doing this I quickly noticed that there was water around the lock fitting and a small drop further down the panel inside the boot. There were also "witness" marks on the inside of the panel around the exit "flapy thing" which lets air out through the rear panel which indicated that water had been running down from the area of the lock

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View attachment 193354

At first I though water was getting into the rear hatch somehow and running out through the lock to dribble down the inside. Strangely though, although the parts you can see in the pictures above were very wet there was no sign of water on the lock in the hatch or any sign of water leaking from inside the hatch. OK. Maybe it's something to do with the seal? So I carefully pulled the seal off all along the bottom of the aperture. Starting just to the right (Off Side) of the lock I was immediately greeted with wetness.

View attachment 193355

If you look carefully you can see that there is dampness to the left of my thumb but not to the right of it. This picture was of the seal where it fits in the bottom right corner Continuing to pull the seal off until I had almost half of it off, up to about a foot vertically on the left (Near Side) and almost to the top on the right (Off Side) - because that was the side where the water seemed to be - it was obvious that water was lying inside the section to the right of the lock but not to the left or any higher up the sides. The inside of the "U" section of the seal was very wet as was the flange on the body, but only that bottom part, from the lock to the corner where the seal starts to go vertical. Oh, hello, do I see sealant in the bottom of the "U" section of the rubber seal?

View attachment 193342

Looks like glazier's putty? And not very much of it either. As I look round more of the seal I've already pulled off I can see further evidence of it. Looks like someone else has been in here before me chasing this leak.

Water leaks can be very difficult to sort. I remember, when new to this game and being the "Laddy" who was often shut in the boot to look for leaks whilst one of the "men" played a hose on the outside, being amazed to learn that water can happily travel "uphill", by capillary action between seals and panel joints, to reappear quite some distance and "uphill" from it's entry point. So I don't like to rush too hurriedly, into action before considering all the clues. Went and made a cup of tea and stood looking at it for a wee while. Oh, wait a minute, just look at that panel joint.

View attachment 193358

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If you look just to the right of the flange you can see an overlapping panel joint which runs downwards towards the left and is not completely flush so forming a very small "groove" through which water can run from the outside to the inside of the "U" of the seal. Interestingly this is where the wetness starts which you can see in the picture featuring my thumb! I'm about 90% sure I've found it now!

But why doesn't the other side (Near Side) have the same problem? It's completely dry and there is the same panel joint? Look carefully.

View attachment 193360

The joint runs downwards towards the right so it's encouraging water to run towards the seal isn't it? well yes, but look at the witness marks (black) where the seal has been gripping. Continuous right through the area of the joint isn't it? Which seems to indicate that the seal deformed enough to effect a seal but also, just to the left hand end of the joint is a depression (it's clearer with the naked eye) which is not there on the right hand side joint, which I think will be encouraging water to flow down and away from the "groove" of the joint?

So what to do now. Well I think it's highly likely the water is getting behind the rubber in that right hand corner and then running along the "U" section to reappear at the lock where it's then running down the inside of the rear panel to collect in the wheel well. The person who tried to cure it before me had the right idea but maybe didn't actually isolate where the leak was as he/she applied sealant all round - or maybe just decided to cover all the bases? Also nothing like enough sealant was applied and the sealant itself was not the best choice and unlikely to be effective. I intend to use Geocel "The Works" which can be applied to dry and/or wet surfaces. Not the cheapest but wicked stuff! Just hope I don't have to remove it later!

Hope that others experiencing this problem find this useful. I'm needing to buy service items for my youngest boy's wife's Jazz so I'll stop by Screwfix on the way to buy the sealant. I'll give it a few weeks and report back on whether it's cured or not - "Cured", get it? Oh dear, I've been sat at this computer for too long! Keep your fingers crossed for me!
Regards to all
Jock
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Pugglt Auld Jock said:
Just felt a wee update on Becky's incontinence problem (wet boot floor) might be of interest?

Sanity has returned to our house with the departure of my daughter, her husband and children after their long weekend with us so they could take in Edinburgh festival events before it all finished. Our other grandchildren and their mums and dads were in and out like yo-yos too. All this activity has required transport and Becky is absolutely ideal for nipping in and out of the insanity that is Edinburgh traffic at festival time consequently she has racked up a few miles. There was just time last night, after returning our youngest grandchild home, for a quick check over before dinner.

It's not been long since I did a major service and renewed the timing belt (Inc water pump) so it was pleasing to find that everything, coolant level, oil level, tyre pressures, etc, etc were all absolutely spot on. Less pleasing to find a wee puddle in the boot though.

Got up this morning to a beautiful sunny day. Mrs Jock decided to do a big wash (yes I did help strip the beds!) So decided to do a bit of detective work on Becky's leak. Started off having a look round the joint between the hatch and rubber seal. It's definitely touching all the way round but compressing it more at the top than the bottom. Next I removed the rear door (hatch) seal and blew all round the sealing "slot" with my air hose. My compressor runs 130psi so this cleared out all the moisture and most of the fragments of putty - yes it was glazier's putty - from "whoever's" previous effort. I then played the old hair dryer I have along it to be sure and dried the flange edge on the car. Reinstalled the seal. Rigged up the garden hose by cable tying it to the aerial. Gently turned the hose on. Climbed into the back of the car with my led work light and nothing seemed to happen except that no leak appeared! However after about 5 minutes, just as I was about to call it a day, one wee drop of water appeared at the lock, ran down the inside of the panel and dripped on the boot floor. Considering there has never been more than about an eggcup full of water when I've previously checked, perhaps this is it! The long suffering Mrs Jock was having a quiet cuppa whilst she waited for the washing machine to finish so I got her to come out and play the water all over the back of the car whilst I kept watch inside. I paid particular attention to the rear light fittings (thanks Koalar) but all seemed dry. Oops! There's another drip at the lock! Looked very closely at this. The water is not appearing between the seal and hatch but is coming out between the seal and body.

So, pulled of the seal up to about the level of the back window, both sides, and again, as I originally reported in earlier post, there's wetness, inside the "U" section, from that seam joint on the OS down to the lock. Nothing on the NS or higher up. The water's got to be getting past the inside of the seal, at that seam and running along. The "U" of the seal is completely dry higher up so, with the bottom two thirds of the seal pulled off already, I repeated the cleaning and drying up to the level of the back window and injected bathroom silicon (left over from recent reseal on the bath) into the "U" section of the seal and pushed it very firmly back onto its flange. Surprisingly I seem to have used just the right amount of sealant as it "squished" out just a little but not too much and with Becky being white it blends beautifully!

As I was inspecting my handiwork I noticed the air flap valve which is on the rear panel of the boot, just above floor level. I ran my finger around it and it came away wet! I think this is almost certain to be water that has run down from the seal above it but, as this fitting proved easy to remove (four little plastic clips) I did so, cleaned it all up and sparingly applied a little of the sealant to the foam seal around it's perimeter before refitting it.

Finally, just as I was about to walk away, I remembered that I had noticed the seal was not being compressed quite so much at the bottom than at the roofline. Winkled out my trusty 10mm socket and "T" handle, slackened off the hatch striking plate and adjusted it inwards slightly until the hatch, when closed, is compressing the seal evenly all the way round. Gently fully tightened the two striking plate nuts. The immediate and unexpected result of this is that the hatch, which previously closed with a bit of a rattle, now closes with a quality whump and no rattle!

So now I suppose it's a case of standing by, with fingers crossed, and waiting for the next rain storm (sure I won't have to wait long). Feeling quite confident though that I've probably "got it". Oh please let it be! I really don't want to have to clear off a whole lot of solidified silicon sealant! Hopefully I'll be able to report a happy outcome, within the next week or so, to close this thread.
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Just like to thank Pugglt Auld Jock for this post which I thought worth repeating in full.
I have (had) the exact same problem, water in the spare wheel well with no idea how it got there( 2009 Panda).First noticed in this winters months as lots of condensation on the windscreen. Tried all sorts, even pulled off the rear seal and noticed water, dried it out and replaced it, still had water in the boot bottom.
Then found this explanation which appears to be the answer.
The only thing I would query is the “old putty found inside the seal” which I don’t think is an old repair, I think it’s original sealer from new, because on mine it’s all the way round at the bottom of the slot,either that, or the same person repaired mine as Pugglt Auld Jocks car, which I don’t think likely.
I would say that the original sealer is still doing it’s job at the top of the rubber seal, but lower down the sides and at the bottom it’s gone hard and cracked, so letting water through.
Suffice to say, today went and bought The Works pro sealant from Scewfix, removed the rubber seal, put a bead of sealer all round in the gap in the rubber and pushed it back on.
Now waiting for it to rain again, which I don’t suppose will be long. Crossed fingers.
Richard
 
Richard1940 said:
Just like to thank Pugglt Auld Jock for this post which I thought worth repeating in full.
I have (had) the exact same problem, water in the spare wheel well with no idea how it got there( 2009 Panda).First noticed in this winters months as lots of condensation on the windscreen. Tried all sorts, even pulled off the rear seal and noticed water, dried it out and replaced it, still had water in the boot bottom.
Then found this explanation which appears to be the answer.
The only thing I would query is the “old putty found inside the seal” which I don’t think is an old repair, I think it’s original sealer from new, because on mine it’s all the way round at the bottom of the slot,either that, or the same person repaired mine as Pugglt Auld Jocks car, which I don’t think likely.
I would say that the original sealer is still doing it’s job at the top of the rubber seal, but lower down the sides and at the bottom it’s gone hard and cracked, so letting water through.
Suffice to say, today went and bought The Works pro sealant from Scewfix, removed the rubber seal, put a bead of sealer all round in the gap in the rubber and pushed it back on.
Now waiting for it to rain again, which I don’t suppose will be long. Crossed fingers.
Richard
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That's interesting - about the putty I mean. The stuff in mine didn't look like typical body sealer more like glazier's putty. Thanks for the kind words about my post. Plenty of rain around at this time of year so I'm sure you wont have long to wait! Good luck, do let us know if it's cured.
 
Common to leak near the brake servo on the Corsa B and fill up the car like a fish tank

I use to clean them up and reseal with silicone bath seal. Never failed again

In fact I fit exhaust on with high temperature silicone sealant from pound shops. Red tube. Not seen any in the couple of years though
 
Pugglt Auld Jock said:
I probably need to apologize for resurrecting this thread but I just mentioned it in a post in the "grumpy" thread with Max about water leaks and got distracted into rereading it.

First off, I'm very glad to be able to say that the absolutely hellish time we had at the beginning of the year with illness in the family is greatly improved. We've had a lot of contact with services provided by the NHS during this time and my respect, admiration and deepest gratitude to these over worked and dedicated people is bottomless. Saying thank you seems so totally inadequate.

I say in the above post that we "just cancelled Christmas and New Year and will postpone it 'till next year" Well, that's really not looking like a "goer" at this time is it? Also that next years Christmas letter to our friends might have to be expanded to a whole page to catch up - I'm going to be scratching to think of things to say. Maybe I could describe the difficulty I had painting round the radiator in the wee toilet? Or enthuse about the new Henry Hoover I've just bought (we've named him Norman, but I won't go into that unless someone asks). Of course there's the table lamp I rewired too! Strewth, I really am loosing it aren't I
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For heavens sake man! His name is Henry. Dont be surprised if he stops responding to you!
 
The Panda Nut said:
For heavens sake man! His name is Henry. Dont be surprised if he stops responding to you!
Click to expand...
Actually that's not his name! He's the industrial version sexily names the Numatic VNP 180: https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/2302234074?iid=132727871797 Mrs J said we couldn't keep on calling him that so I suggested Norman and it's just stuck.

He doesn't have the fancy wind up top which, if I were buying another one I'd probably go for as it's just a wee bit of a nuisance having to manually coil the wire into his top. Other than that it's been the best hoover we've owned. I bought him from a local trade source where I get all my appliance parts from and they gave me a good price - probably what they sell them to the hotels etc for? I also got the turbo brush head discounted too and I can highly recommend it.
 
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Pugglt Auld Jock said:
Actually that's not his name! He's the industrial version sexily names the Numatic VNP 180: https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/2302234074?iid=132727871797 Mrs J said we couldn't keep on calling him that so I suggested Norman and it's just stuck.

He doesn't have the fancy wind up top which, if I were buying another one I'd probably go for as it's just a wee bit of a nuisance having to manually coil the wire into his top. Other than that it's been the best hoover we've owned. I bought him from a local trade source where I get all my appliance parts from and they gave me a good price - probably what they sell them to the hotels etc for? I also got the turbo brush head discounted too and I can highly recommend it.
Click to expand...
Not NEWMAN .COM then!
 
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Pugglt Auld Jock said:
That's interesting - about the putty I mean. The stuff in mine didn't look like typical body sealer more like glazier's putty. Thanks for the kind words about my post. Plenty of rain around at this time of year so I'm sure you wont have long to wait! Good luck, do let us know if it's cured.
Click to expand...
Just a follow up. The replaced seal with new sealer in it cured one leaking problem, but there was another, coming through where the car aerial enters, sealed with silicone because I didn’t fancy taking out the roof lining, not very pretty but it does the job Now two months on and no water in the boot
 
Hi,

Could you please summarize briefly where exactly the problem was and what you did to fix it? There's a lot of off-topic text, and I'm finding it hard to follow the details. A short explanation would be really helpful. Thank you!
 
I read as here
IMG_20231225_150142.jpg
 
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