Technical Ducato Comfortmatic and/or CANBUS issues

[Sparks1061]

Yep, done all the same things you mention and no change. Agree with probable cost but local garages here don’t have access to Fiat calibration equipment hence having to go to further afield at huge cost. Basically no choice. Will post results.

If you have a laptop available MES is 50 euros and a OBD2 with a USB lead is about 30 euros, and you can do everything needed with them

 

[elvis0the0king]

Yep, done all the same things you mention and no change. Agree with probable cost but local garages here don’t have access to Fiat calibration equipment hence having to go to further afield at huge cost. Basically no choice. Will post results.

G'day McLeod001, I concur with what Sparks1061 is saying above, regarding MultiECUscan software. It's good advice.

I too have a current problem with my 2015 3.0 litre Ducato motorhome with Comfortmatic control system for the 6 spd gearbox. I've downloaded the MultiECUscan software directly from their web site and simply paid by credit card. Boom! Fully registered and unhindered software which is easy to install. Then I purchased the OBDLink SX cable recommended by this forum's "theoneandonly" as he also has a Ducato. The cable was available in Australia from a local ebay supplier. About $79, as I recall.

The software even has a simulation mode allowing you to click through the menus and familiarise yourself "offline" from your vehicle, whilst you're waiting for your cable to be delivered. I was absolutely gobsmacked at the super professional level of this software, for only Euro 50. It is amazing and can do all the calibrations you'll neeed. Not only the calibrations, but also the display, recording and graphing of many gearbox and/or engine parameters in real time with engine running, or while the vehicle is being driven! This saves a datafile which can be read back into MultiECUscan afterwards and played back, for further head scratching and debugging of the issues, back at the desk.

A bluethooth OBD transmitter is also available, as detailed in "theoneandonly" 's guide in the Guides section of this forum- titled "What software/ hardware do i need to read OBD2 codes" Vgate Icar Pro 3.0 - about $35, also on ebaly from Aussie supplier.

Mate, in owning one of these Ducato based motorhomes and travelling the vast distances in remote Oz, it'll be the best small money you've spent toward being independent of needing pro workshops.

I'm not an agent for them or anything. Just a long time home mechanic who prefers to maintain his own bikes and vehicles because I like the satisfying independence of fixing my own stuff.

In writing this, I hope it might give you the confidence that you may in fact be able to help yourself.

For your reference, here's the full set of Adjustments/Calibrations, in a screen grab straight from my Ver 5.2 MultiECUscan

And here's the Parameters section mentioned, showing some Clutch specific parameters I've selected in the software's Simulation mode. Note, these numbers are just randomly generated whilst in Simulation mode. Not real data.

 

[Sparks1061]

G'day McLeod001, I concur with what Sparks1061 is saying above, regarding MultiECUscan software. It's good advice.

I too have a current problem with my 2015 3.0 litre Ducato motorhome with Comfortmatic control system for the 6 spd gearbox. I've downloaded the MultiECUscan software directly from their web site and simply paid by credit card. Boom! Fully registered and unhindered software which is easy to install. Then I purchased the OBDLink SX cable recommended by this forum's "theoneandonly" as he also has a Ducato. The cable was available in Australia from a local ebay supplier. About $79, as I recall.

The software even has a simulation mode allowing you to click through the menus and familiarise yourself "offline" from your vehicle, whilst you're waiting for your cable to be delivered. I was absolutely gobsmacked at the super professional level of this software, for only Euro 50. It is amazing and can do all the calibrations you'll neeed. Not only the calibrations, but also the display, recording and graphing of many gearbox and/or engine parameters in real time with engine running, or while the vehicle is being driven! This saves a datafile which can be read back into MultiECUscan afterwards and played back, for further head scratching and debugging of the issues, back at the desk.

A bluethooth OBD transmitter is also available, as detailed in "theoneandonly" 's guide in the Guides section of this forum- titled "What software/ hardware do i need to read OBD2 codes" Vgate Icar Pro 3.0 - about $35, also on ebaly from Aussie supplier.

Mate, in owning one of these Ducato based motorhomes and travelling the vast distances in remote Oz, it'll be the best small money you've spent toward being independent of needing pro workshops.

I'm not an agent for them or anything. Just a long time home mechanic who prefers to maintain his own bikes and vehicles because I like the satisfying independence of fixing my own stuff.

In writing this, I hope it might give you the confidence that you may in fact be able to help yourself.

For your reference, here's the full set of Adjustments/Calibrations, in a screen grab straight from my Ver 5.2 MultiECUscan
View attachment 436932

And here's the Parameters section mentioned, showing some Clutch specific parameters I've selected in the software's Simulation mode. Note, these numbers are just randomly generated whilst in Simulation mode. Not real data.
View attachment 436934
View attachment 436935

Hi,
What problems do you have with your gearbox? Happy to swap excels with the readings with you so we can help each other with the diagnostics

 

[elvis0the0king]

Hi,
What problems do you have with your gearbox? Happy to swap excels with the readings with you so we can help each other with the diagnostics

G'day Sparks1061. Sure, I'd like that. I'll go back and read your posts to come up to speed. My issue was where the car would drive perferctly without any issues for about the first 30 minutes from cold. Then, when slowing for a roundabout where the transmission controls tries to change down to a suitable lower gear, I would get the dreaded "Gear not available. Check Transmission" error appearing on the dash with the audible "bell of death" sound. ;-) and the car would slip into neutral. After waiting about one hour for everything to cool down, I could drive off again, only to break down with the same message, once the car warmed up, then have to let it cool for an hour again, before being able to select a gear and drive off. Car only has 21,000 k's travelled but still, it's 9 years old this year. I changed the Dexron III hydraulic fluid for the clutch and gear actuators, as well as the entire small contents of the DOT3 fluid for the clutch master/slave cylinder and gravity bled it. No air was allowed to enter the system during the process. The only error codes I was getting, were the first two shown in the image from MES below. So I replaced the Hydraulic Pump Relay with a genuine part supplied by Fiat Professional. Now, as summer has become hotter, I've found the Hydraulic Pump will not run upon opening the driver's door on a day warmer than 32deg C. I've also now got a hard error with the Start Enable Relay (see third error in image below). My problem is I have no idea where the Start Enable Relay is located, for me to check it. I also note from voltage reports coming from my TCU, it shows 1 full volt difference to that actual voltage measured at the new 110 A/H battery. Voltage measured at the engine bay fuse/relay box is only 0.01 different to that measured directly on the battery. So now I'm off to clean earth straps, locate and check the Start Enable Relay and also try to locate the TCU in my right hand drive vehicle, to make sure it is well earthed. See image of current errors. Note: hydraulic pump will prime on a day under 32 deg C. Maybe there's some dodgy solder joint somewhere, disconnecting upon heat expansion - I don't know. I have checked the dash-to-engine-bay wiring loom is clear and not damaged by the wiper motor arms, as reported elsewhere. All good as far as I could see.

 

[Sparks1061]

G'day Sparks1061. Sure, I'd like that. I'll go back and ready your posts to come up to speed. My issue was where the car would drive perferctly without any issues for about the first 30 minutes from cold. Then, when slowing for a roundabout where the transmission controls tries to change down to a suitable lower gear, I would get the dreaded "Gear not available. Check Transmission" error appearing on the dash with the audible "bell of death" sound. ;-) and the car would slip into neutral. After waiting about one hour for everything to cool down, I could drive off again, only to break down with the same message, once the car warmed up, then have to let it cool for an hour again, before being able to select a gear and drive off. Car only has 21,000 k's travelled but still, it's 9 years old this year. I changed the Dexron III hydraulic fluid for the clutch and gear actuators, as well as the entire small contents of the DOT3 fluid for the clutch master/slave cylinder and gravity bled it. No air was allowed to enter the system during the process. The only error codes I was getting, were the first two shown in the image from MES below. So I replaced the Hydraulic Pump Relay with a genuine part supplied by Fiat Professional. Now, as summer has become hotter, I've found the Hydraulic Pump will not run upon opening the driver's door on a day warmer than 32deg C. I've also now got a hard error with the Start Enable Relay (see third error in image below). My problem is I have no idea where the Start Enable Relay is located, for me to check it. I also note from voltage reports coming from my TCU, it shows 1 full volt difference to that actual voltage measured at the new 110 A/H battery. Voltage measured at the engine bay fuse/relay box is only 0.01 different to that measured directly on the battery. So now I'm off to clean earth straps, locate and check the Start Enable Relay and also try to locate the TCU in my right hand drive vehicle, to make sure it is well earthed. See image of current errors. Note: hydraulic pump will prime on a day under 32 deg C. Maybe there's some dodgy solder joint somewhere, disconnecting upon heat expansion - I don't know. I have checked the dash-to-engine-bay wiring loom is clear and not damaged by the wiper motor arms, as reported elsewhere. All good as far as I could see.
View attachment 436940

Hi, I think the earth straps would be a good starting point as it seems to be temp related, maybe a corroded joint on the engine strap is breaking down when it gets hot,

 

[theoneandonly]

@bazmonaut @Sparks1061 @McLeod001 @Canex and any body with a comformatic gearbox. I think its a good idea to share MES data and this thread is as good a place as any. Post the original .csv file as well as any analysis or file, not everyone uses excel. I don't have an auto box and know little about it and its problems other than it takes up space here and motorhome forums. What i do know is sharing data allowed a group of us to suss the problems of the twin egr model how to recognize / diagnose the problem and what to do to resolve it. here's the simple version.

Ducato twin EGR Engine with P0401 Code (2016 to 2019)

This does not refer to earlier single EGR systems or to later AdBlu SCR engines. Note this is a guide and not definative. It is up to you to make decissions. It is the result of my investigations of data from many contributors and discussion with...

www.fiatforum.com

 

[Sparks1061]

So happy to share some data,
I have several tabs, all with the engine running which I have converted back to CSV Files
There is a File from Dec 2023 after having changed the fluid in both the DOT 4 and Hydraulic containers and Bled both
Then a File from 9 Jan this year after again bleeding the Dot 4
A File from 14.1.2023 after I had run the Bleed on the Hydraulic container several times using MES as well as had another go at cleaning all the engine compartment containers I could find.
And finally a File from my mates Motorhome which is working perfectly So these are the sorts of readings you are looking for.

Only real difference between my readings and his is the clutch RPM, which is always zero in his (As the van isn´t moving) and on mine is for the first 2 the same as the engine speed, which suggests that the clutch is not disengaging at all.

Hope this helps someone and happy to have any comments on the readings from anyone,

 

[MSjoberg]

My problem is I have no idea where the Start Enable Relay is located, for me to check it.

In my 2018 it's T56 in the picture in this entry:

Comfortmatic issue Help | FIAT Ducato

Wonder if any one can help I have a 2015 fiat Ducato 3.0 multi jet desel and my hydraulic fluid got low and am stuck in 1 gear I have now toped it up now. Was just wondering if any one can help with programming the gearbox I have downloaded the mes software and it’s registered any help is...

www.fiatforum.com

(Located in the optional wiring module attached to the engine compartment fusebox, behind/below left hand headlight)

 

[CheeseMonster]

From my drive today, swapping between manual and auto modes. 2017 Comfortmatic.

 

[McLeod001]

So happy to share some data,
I have several tabs, all with the engine running which I have converted back to CSV Files
There is a File from Dec 2023 after having changed the fluid in both the DOT 4 and Hydraulic containers and Bled both
Then a File from 9 Jan this year after again bleeding the Dot 4
A File from 14.1.2023 after I had run the Bleed on the Hydraulic container several times using MES as well as had another go at cleaning all the engine compartment containers I could find.
And finally a File from my mates Motorhome which is working perfectly So these are the sorts of readings you are looking for.

Only real difference between my readings and his is the clutch RPM, which is always zero in his (As the van isn´t moving) and on mine is for the first 2 the same as the engine speed, which suggests that the clutch is not disengaging at all.

Hope this helps someone and happy to have any comments on the readings from anyone,

Hi Sparks and others, Well after going through the various suggestions of trying to solve the ‘Gear not available’ message finally followed the reading on my OBD reader which said Clutch bearing stuck and had my Ducato trucked to the nearest Fiat mechanics in Sydney to replace the clutch and bearing. Cost in Aus dollars was $7200 plus another $1000 trucking but at least the vehicle is now going well and the problem was mechanical and luckily not electronic. Regarding your note that clutch rpm is the same as engine rpm with engine running, foot on brake pedal this indicates like mine that clutch is stuck. I had the same reading on my OBD. Now with the same conditions the clutch reads zero with engine 700 rpm which means the gear selector can now allow gear changes. Hope this helps? Regards and thanks to all for your postings.

 

[Sparks1061]

Hi Sparks and others, Well after going through the various suggestions of trying to solve the ‘Gear not available’ message finally followed the reading on my OBD reader which said Clutch bearing stuck and had my Ducato trucked to the nearest Fiat mechanics in Sydney to replace the clutch and bearing. Cost in Aus dollars was $7200 plus another $1000 trucking but at least the vehicle is now going well and the problem was mechanical and luckily not electronic. Regarding your note that clutch rpm is the same as engine rpm with engine running, foot on brake pedal this indicates like mine that clutch is stuck. I had the same reading on my OBD. Now with the same conditions the clutch reads zero with engine 700 rpm which means the gear selector can now allow gear changes. Hope this helps? Regards and thanks to all for your postings.

Glad to hear you got it sorted, mine is booked in to have same thing middle of April.
Was that with a Fiat workshop?
Mine is booked with an independent, but they have done enough of them that they have a fixed price package for the clutch change which includes also checking the master cylinder and then another fixed price if they need to change the Master cylinder as well,
I am hoping it is a stuck clutch and only the clutch needs replacing

 

[McLeod001]

Glad to hear you got it sorted, mine is booked in to have same thing middle of April.
Was that with a Fiat workshop?
Mine is booked with an independent, but they have done enough of them that they have a fixed price package for the clutch change which includes also checking the master cylinder and then another fixed price if they need to change the Master cylinder as well,
I am hoping it is a stuck clutch and only the clutch needs replacing

Yes it was at a Fiat workshop since none of the local gearbox shops had access to the Fiat clutch tuning program, or didn’t want to, and I doubted my ability to do this even if as has been suggested to use the MES reader. The price included changing the hydraulic pump which I queried as my readouts showed it holding 42 bar. The answer given was that it appeared to have a slow leak (?) and also easier to change with gearbox out rather than having to change it later. Good luck with yours.

 

[Sparks1061]

So today I jacked the front of my motorhome up, both wheels off the ground, I had dropped a torch into the engine bay and want to get the bottom covers off to recover it before it goes in for a new clutch.
But I have also heard if the comfortmatic problem is the clutch spring plates jamming the clutch, turning the wheels with them both in the air can free it on a temp basis (which would maybe allow me to drive into the road for the recovery.
However although the left side wheel turns fine the right side wheel is solid.
Anyone have any ideas what this signifies? I would have thought even if the gearbox is stuck in 1st I would be able to rotate the wheel by hand, or am I wrong in my thinking?

 

[MSjoberg]

Glad to hear you got it sorted, mine is booked in to have same thing middle of April.
Was that with a Fiat workshop?
Mine is booked with an independent, but they have done enough of them that they have a fixed price package for the clutch change which includes also checking the master cylinder and then another fixed price if they need to change the Master cylinder as well,
I am hoping it is a stuck clutch and only the clutch needs replacing

What brand of clutch will be installed? Original LUK (without or with (improved?) plastic parts) or some other brand?

 

[Sparks1061]

What brand of clutch will be installed? Original LUK (without or with (improved?) plastic parts) or some other brand?

They are talking about fitting a LUX clutch but say it has been improved since the original, but I think I will ask them to fit a sachs clutch instead, will be more 3xpensive but unless they h@ve removed the plastic parts I will be more confident in another brand

 

[McLeod001]

So today I jacked the front of my motorhome up, both wheels off the ground, I had dropped a torch into the engine bay and want to get the bottom covers off to recover it before it goes in for a new clutch.
But I have also heard if the comfortmatic problem is the clutch spring plates jamming the clutch, turning the wheels with them both in the air can free it on a temp basis (which would maybe allow me to drive into the road for the recovery.
However although the left side wheel turns fine the right side wheel is solid.
Anyone have any ideas what this signifies? I would have thought even if the gearbox is stuck in 1st I would be able to rotate the wheel by hand, or am I wrong in my thinking?

Not sure about Comfortmatic arrangement but for rear wheel drive vehicles if you turn one wheel the other wheel also rotates in the opposite direction due to the crown wheel system with the gearbox either in neutral or engaged. The only difference is the drive shaft doesn’t rotate if the gearbox is engaged, the wheels still can be moved. With Comfortmatic the advice is to always turn off the engine with gearbox engaged, either 1 or R so perhaps this is some sort of braking arrangement? Can you safely put your jacked up van into N? With my earlier problem if the engine was started with foot on the brake the gearbox would immediately shift into N. Can try this and then check the front wheels for free rotation?

 

[Sparks1061]

So just to close off this story from my side. Now finally have my motorhome back on the road with a new clutch fitted.
Issue was not the plastic parts on the clutch but a leaking slave cylinder. Final cost for replacement, 1800 euros.

 

[MSjoberg]

So just to close off this story from my side. Now finally have my motorhome back on the road with a new clutch fitted.
Issue was not the plastic parts on the clutch but a leaking slave cylinder. Final cost for replacement, 1800 euros.

Glad that you got it sorted out now. Was it an internal leakage in the slave cylinder, or external i.e. fluid dripping out?

 

[Sparks1061]

Glad that you got it sorted out now. Was it an internal leakage in the slave cylinder, or external i.e. fluid dripping out?

Internal,