Technical Converting Panda 169 from power steering to mechinical steering

[vexorg]

In the UK, our MOT test will not check for this, only whether a fitted system is working. I doubt any country would notice, but there is a small risk.
As these cars were first produced a little before the legislation, some were made without power steering, but unless some countries had them without, parts will become scarce sooner.

I was about to say the same, in the UK it may fail the MOT (annual government inspection). Do they check the PAS light, some sharp eyed tester with a grudge might.

 

[jrkitching]

Do they check the PAS light

It'll fail an MOT if the PAS light is on.

As to whether an individual tester would check if the light illuminates briefly during the initial power up procedure, I don't care to say.

If you retrospectively fit manual steering to a model of car which had manual steering as an option when new, it should pass.

MOT testers don't check whether the car complies with obscure European Directives. They follow an inspection manual which describes in detail what defects should be tested for.

They will only fail a car it they find a major or dangerous fault which can be ascribed to one of the specified categories.

 

[leongrey99]

Usually, but not always, that assumption is correct.

So first check the battery condition, the electrical connections and the earthing points.

Before we understood the importance of having sound electrical connections (the motor draws a lot of current), garages (including franchised dealers) carried out a lot of unnecessary column replacements.

In a very small percentage of cases, the problem is caused by a failing torque sensor in the steering column. In these small number of cases, it may be necessary to either replace the torque sensor or fit a replacement or refurbished column motor assembly.

This is one company which can refurbish a failing column assembly, but remember they are in the business of selling this service. They don't fail as often as you might think from looking at their website.

If you have a weak torque sensor and an older car and the problem is very intermittent, you might just choose to live with it.

Thanks. First step is to get a new battery then if that doesn’t fix it I will have to find someone with a multimeter to check the points? I’m not very electrical I’m more mechanical. I don’t think the motor has failed tho as it’s not pulling to one side or another or anything it’s just feels like it’s turned off when the light is on the dash. Weird

 

[leongrey99]

Nobody can say change this or its that

There are multi faults with the same symptoms

Truly intermittent, loss of power steering with the red EPS light coming on isn't usally serious

Swapping the battery for a known good is the normal first step

Unlike engine codes reading the ESP code will normally not get you anywhere

EPS electric power steering faults | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

First don't panic, the vast majority of power steering faults are normally simple and cheap fixes especially if it starts failing mainly in your winter months But unfortunately nobody can say change this or do that and it fix it. A lot of different faults will cause the same symptoms or the...

www.fiatforum.com

Yes sounds good new battery and maybe check alternator if that’s not the cause. I don’t see how the whole column could have failed

 

[Patjes]

Almost there to start the conversion, The mechanical parts are recieved today after a lot of trouble ordering them.
The postage guy managed two times in a row to make the parts go missing for weeks.
The steeringkolom from a non-eps is recieved, also the steeringrack and two new steering balljoints.
Mounted together on the workbench it turns very smooth by hand even without the steering wheel on it.
Hopefully this weekend i got the time to mount everything in the car, en then sort out the programming of the eps-unit so the ecu knows it removed/replaced by a non-eps part, Thanks everyone for the help this far,

 

[Patjes]

Turned out to be very easy. with original Multiecuscan software registered, and a good elm327 dongle.
No adaptercables needed
Removed the powercables from the power steering. So the light of fault EPS turned n, left the datacables intact on the eps-ecu.
New proxi alignment procedure,save, and now it says : powersterring not present, no erros or fault codes, and the city knob is deactivated,
Scanning for fault codes,
No faultcodes turn up, yes, yes, Yes

 

[Patjes]

 

[koalar]

Shouldn't ABS be present ?

 

[Patjes]

On the scans before including the first one made when i bought the car, ABS is also not-present. I can look it after, Thanks for the notice Koalar
When i am right the green adaptercable is for ABS reading, will be looking right now,

 

[AndyRKett]

the issue is the motor is still present and connected to the steering column so you will get resistance from that, also the castor angle is different on cars with power steering versus cars without, this is to make the steering lighter where power steering isn't fitted. so there are a number of things which you will be fighting against whenever you are using the steering with the power steering disconnected.

 

[Patjes]

the issue is the motor is still present and connected to the steering column so you will get resistance from that, also the castor angle is different on cars with power steering versus cars without, this is to make the steering lighter where power steering isn't fitted. so there are a number of things which you will be fighting against whenever you are using the steering with the power steering disconnected.

Please read the whole topic before posting a reply that doenst make sense.
Steering column of a non-eps model is fitted, as you can read on the first page, also the steeringrack ment for a non-eps model is fitted.
Works perfectly, steers even lighter then with eps, also is the load on the dynamo a lot smaller, its very noticeable that the engine has to work less hard when steering, Fuelconsumption is lower with about 1,5km pro liter. and best of all thats why i fitted it, i like the steering a lot more, feeling excactly what the wheels do, not the feeling of a turning electric motor it first had and electric that isn't fitted doesn't go broke again

 

[Patjes]

When its been turned off, its no problem changing the electric steering colum to the non electric version of it afterwards, No faultcodes or whatever.

 

[koalar]

information on the can lines on the Panda is sketchy then there are two CAN lines


The CAN C is daisy chained

Removing the ESP makes a brake in it

You will need to join the brake to get the ABS fully functional as it should be

 

[Patjes]

Thank you very very much, for helping and posting your expert knowledge, i have much more to learn as a beginner, may i ask you where this schematic drawing comes from, looks very interessting,

 

[Patjes]

Also order the 5 other adaptercables for elm327/mec (deliverd today) (the green one did i allready have) so that everything can be read out at the car.

 

[koalar]

Thank you very very much, for helping and posting your expert knowledge, i have much more to learn as a beginner, may i ask you where this schematic drawing comes from, looks very interessting,

Fiat elearn

eLearn ELearning Home Page

aftersales.fiat.com

Unfortunately CAN C information is patchy or missing altogether

Fiat normally keep the wiring standard except for the 4x4, I'd be fairly confident it will be

Green
Brown
Twisted pairs, and may or may not be shielded

Should be simple, as jumping the inputs to outputs on the connector, not that it ever is that simple

Green to green
Brown to brown

 

[vexorg]

If it has ESP then it may need the steering angle too

 

[jrkitching]

If it has ESP then it may need the steering angle too

Don't think the 169 Panda ever has ESP.

 

[koalar]

k074 in the diagram above is the yaw sensor

I believe it's under one of the the seats

It can be ignored for most people

ABS needs sorting, safety and legal reasons

Without a functional ABS it possible for the rear to lock up and the car to swap ends under heavy braking