Technical 2009 Panda Flashing ABS & Steering when indicating

[wattoo]

Realise this is a pretty common thing, I have checked all the power/earth leads, battery has also been replaced. When indicating, the ABS then Steering Symbol come on one after the other, then go out again. These stay off unless indicating...so I know it is an issue either inside the instrument cluster, or more generally with the wiring. The car owner reports this happening when hitting larger bumps whie driving (with indicator off).
Has anyone had any symptoms as above, & if so did you manage to trace the cause?
Many thanks in advance.

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi, not something I have seen..

Member @koalar probably has though..?

 

[koalar]

Nope as far as I know it's not common on the Panda unlike the 500

Do the lights come on full brightness or dim

A good start would be to activate the indicator dash light via a scan tool connected to the body computer

And see if the ABS lights up as well

 

[irc]

Not had that exact problem on a Panda.
Unless nobbled intentionally, the Panda dash is usually pretty trouble free - not seen one with faulty warning lights (or even failed screens) yet.
Nearest I've seen was random dash lights caused by scuttle full of water, overflowing onto electrics inside.
Also, have seen some strange results from badly installed aftermarket head units screwing with the CAN Bus, but nothing quite like this.
Could be a bad earth, but I would expect clocks to play up as well.

 

[koalar]

If the others are only dim when the indicators are use, it might mean damp got inside the dash circuit board

 

[wattoo]

Many thanks for all your replies. They light up brightly - am thinking poor earth somewhere or internal fault/pcb issue eg damp as you have mentioned. I get the car back to check it in a week so will do some digging to see what I can find & will post the findings here.

 

[koalar]

Fist job I would think is to connect a scan tool to the body computer and toggle each light individually

The body computer sends a network signal to the instrument computer which decodes the signal to toggle the lights lights on or off

If it can't do this, then there's no point in even looking at the wiring

There's no physical connection between the steering, ABS, body computer and dash, except the network connection

 

[wattoo]

Thanks, that's really helpful info koalar, will do that.

 

[wattoo]

Update, I've just been looking at this Panda again & used the latest full version of Multiecuscan. I found that there were CanBus errors:

U1602 - CAN line error Invalid Signal Stored
U1602 - CAN Line Error Invalid Signal Stored
U1600 - Minicrypt Invalid Signal - Fatal
U1700 - Communication with Body Computer No signal - Stored
C1003 - Vehicle Speed (from CAN) Invalid Signal - Stored

In the CAN setup screen I had this:

Body Computer Node (BCM/NBC): EOL OK
Engine Control Node (ECM/NCM): Removed
Electric Steering Node (EPS/NGE): Removed
Dashboard Node (IPC/NQS): EOL Ok

I then went to the CAN setup settings & found that the power appeared to be set to Logistics mode (low power). I changed this setting to "Normal", disconnected, re-connected & found the CAN Setup / Proxi Alignment screen now said this:


Body Computer Node (BCM/NBC): EOL OK
Engine Control Node (ECM/NCM): Ok
Electric Steering Node (EPS/NGE): Ok
Dashboard Node (IPC/NQS): EOL Ok

The next time I logged in, I was given the Warning "This vehicle is properly configured. OROXI Alignment is not needed!"

So, I retested the indicator & the ABS/Steering/Parking Brake lamps now don't flash on & off randomly when indicating left. Am just going out on a road test but it looks promising that the vehicle had reverted to factory low power mode after a battery change or low power incident. The owner did report this happening after the battery was replaced, so I'm hoping the procedure confused the Injection ECU & Steering ECU causing the CANbus errors.

 

[wattoo]

Just back from road test. Fault still there. Exact symptoms are steering light, ABS & Parking brake lights come on brightly. The, padlock symbol comes on, gauges all drop to zero & return again randomly, low fuel light illuminates when gauge needles start dropping. Looking like a CAN/Power fault, re-scanned for faults & have the main CANbus errors back again:

U1602 - CAN line error Invalid Signal Stored
U1602 - CAN Line Error Invalid Signal Stored
U1700 - Communication with Body Computer No signal - Stored

Also worth noting is I cannot reliably connect to any ECU when the engine is running, Multiecuscan either won't connect, or it will connect briefly & crash back out to the ECU menu screen for Panda.

 

[koalar]

On this car is the ECU bolted to the engine or the battery tray

Is it a

1.1
1.2
1.3
Or 1.4

 

[wattoo]

Hi Koalar

ECU bolted to the battery tray, it's a 2010 1.1

I have discovered removing the connector A1 main power feed to body computer (fed by 70A fuse F1 in engine bay) brings on the steering/abs/parking brake light when engine is running. I checked the voltage on this (red) wire which is approx 11.8V with the engine running measured at the back of the terminal on the Body computer. It's the same voltage regardless if connected or not connected. With engine off the voltage rises back to battery voltage. I checked the wire from 70A fuse in engine fusebox to the bulkhead & the red wire is 13.8V engine running. Also checked from body computer back as far as I could reach under the dash & the same red wire is 11.8v ish engine running. Same looking red wire goes up behind steering motor & tests the 11.8 ish voltage engine running. A test bulb works ok on this, am thinking the wire should be ok but the voltage must be dropping after a heavy consumer, can only think the electric steering motor. Schematic shows red wire feeds Body comp directly so scratching my head now. Surely this should be at charging voltage with the engine running?

 

[wattoo]

Please ignore last post - earth point not best using the steering motor case dohh

So i'm looking at a faulty body computer, or poor connector A1 large lucar terminal

 

[wattoo]

Stripped out body computer, removed case, no visible dry solder joints. Suspect power in circuit fault. Unsure if able to fit used identical unit & re Proxi Align with Multiecuscan.

 

[koalar]

Not sure where we are going at the moment but

ABS then Steering Symbol come on one after the other, then go out again.

Aren't these both connect

With

C1003 - Vehicle Speed (from CAN) Invalid Signal - Stored

Which is set when

The Electric Power Steering (EPS) Module received an invalid vehicle speed message from the Anti-lock Brake System (ABS) Module for 2.5 seconds.

Common causes

CAN C BUS CIRCUIT SHORTED
CAN C BUS CIRCUIT OPEN
ELECTRIC POWER STEERING (EPS) MODULE
ANTI-LOCK BRAKE SYSTEM (ABS) MODULE


U1700
Bus messages not received from the Body Control Module (BCM) for approximately two to five seconds.

CAN BUS CIRCUITS OPEN OR SHORTED
DTCS RELATED TO BATTERY VOLTAGE, IGNITION, OR VIN MESSAGES
BODY CONTROL MODULE (BCM) POWER AND GROUND
BCM NOT CONFIGURED CORRECTLY
BODY CONTROL MODULE (BCM)
MODULE THAT SET THIS DTC


Most of the errors have the CAN C BUS in common

 

[wattoo]

Thanks for your valuable info Koalar, I didn't have the detail you have provided for the fault codes so that's super helpful.

Agree with your comments, I was working with a time limit & so managed to create the symptom after removing the main feed to BCM. I did check one ground wire to it but needed more time as there are many connectors front & back. I will get the car back again & follow your fault finding.

 

[koalar]

Unfortunately can c bus is missing from the wiring diagrams I have for the 1.1

I was beginning to think the 1.1 does not have can c bus but it is mentioned in the descriptions

If it like the 1.2 it does not come out at the OBDII port, only can B bus here


One end is the ECU and the other is body computer,

Here's the 1.2

Normally they are green and brown twisted pairs on all fiats except for the 4x4s

And are daisy chained together

Seeing as you have a C1003 and it's also effected by bumps it might be worth starting at the ABS, there was a recall

 

[wattoo]

Thank you! Awesome help Koalar, will report back once had another look