The AROC site has a sticky for recommended (mainly independent) service dealers. Worth a look.
Where has the 1.4 Multiair Engine Gone?
- Thread starter s130
- Start date
Currently reading:
Where has the 1.4 Multiair Engine Gone?
I did comment on this thread several months ago so there's a better than even chance that I'm going to repeat myself at some stage, but, well here goes nothing. (Never did quite understand that expression).
There are different types of car buyer. There's the always buys new; the wouldn't buy new unless they won the lottery and even then would only look at the basic model. And then there's the not that fussy but would like something a little further up the food chain.
I bought a Panda MJ brand new. I'd looked at the catalogue and decided I wanted a diesel and I'd quite like a metallic blue with the Lounge type rubbing strip and alloys. Lo and behold the dealer had exactly that, minus the rubbing strip but that was fitted prior to delivery.
When I've looked at replacing it/her, there are quite a lot of low mileage Pandas and Puntos on FIAT's website, and among them are some more up-range models. But, when you go to your local dealer they're rather hard to find. This seems to be because FIAT dealers seem to still operate the old style of stocking whereby they bring in a lot of cars and stuff them out for bonuses. This means volume, which is largely what the makers want, and this means 1.2 Pops. There are quite a lot of people who want to buy that kind of car, there are also plenty who want A/C, alloy wheels and a little more, or a lot more power. If these cars aren't available from stock then you'll have to wait. And wait. And wait.
As has already been said, as long as there are Golfs, Astras and the Focus on sale there needs to be a Bravo. But the other aspect is that the Focus ST or RS and the Golf GTi aren't great sporty cars just because they've had the boost turned up a bit and had some big wheels, stiff springs and bits and pieces of red plastic. They're good performance cars because they had the right oily bits in the first place. When I used to have Focuses (Focii?) even the 1.6 Zetec was a great driver's car with the best steering I've ever used, and that includes a 911 and BMW 3-Series.
FIAT/Alfa will have no chance while they forget what their core business is. in the past they've made cars, vans, trucks, buses, locomotives a jet fighters. But they all had engines. Of late the business seems to be concentrating more on financial dealings than making things; and more importantly, desirable things.
There are different types of car buyer. There's the always buys new; the wouldn't buy new unless they won the lottery and even then would only look at the basic model. And then there's the not that fussy but would like something a little further up the food chain.
I bought a Panda MJ brand new. I'd looked at the catalogue and decided I wanted a diesel and I'd quite like a metallic blue with the Lounge type rubbing strip and alloys. Lo and behold the dealer had exactly that, minus the rubbing strip but that was fitted prior to delivery.
When I've looked at replacing it/her, there are quite a lot of low mileage Pandas and Puntos on FIAT's website, and among them are some more up-range models. But, when you go to your local dealer they're rather hard to find. This seems to be because FIAT dealers seem to still operate the old style of stocking whereby they bring in a lot of cars and stuff them out for bonuses. This means volume, which is largely what the makers want, and this means 1.2 Pops. There are quite a lot of people who want to buy that kind of car, there are also plenty who want A/C, alloy wheels and a little more, or a lot more power. If these cars aren't available from stock then you'll have to wait. And wait. And wait.
As has already been said, as long as there are Golfs, Astras and the Focus on sale there needs to be a Bravo. But the other aspect is that the Focus ST or RS and the Golf GTi aren't great sporty cars just because they've had the boost turned up a bit and had some big wheels, stiff springs and bits and pieces of red plastic. They're good performance cars because they had the right oily bits in the first place. When I used to have Focuses (Focii?) even the 1.6 Zetec was a great driver's car with the best steering I've ever used, and that includes a 911 and BMW 3-Series.
FIAT/Alfa will have no chance while they forget what their core business is. in the past they've made cars, vans, trucks, buses, locomotives a jet fighters. But they all had engines. Of late the business seems to be concentrating more on financial dealings than making things; and more importantly, desirable things.
Thanks.
I had an Alfa Mito 1.6 diesel in 2009. I actually prefer the Punto. It has better rear legroom and I'm sure the boot is a bit bigger. It would be good to have a bit more power from the Punto however overall it is my favourite out of all 3 Fiat Group vehicles I've owned. Despite having less power I prefer to small petrol compared to the noisy diesels I've had in both the Mito and the 2 litre Bravo.
I would have had a 135hp Punto any day over the 105 but at the time I was without a car and needed something quickly. There are / were a number of 105's available but no 135's apart from the odd 10/11 registered.
The 105 is great but does sometimes lack a bit when it needs to climb a hill especially at motorway speed. It certainly feels lower powered than it is, probably because all of the power is at the top if the rev range.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2014
- Messages
- 4,579
- Points
- 828
Another aspect of FIAT/Alfa's range policy that I don't get is the fact that you can (could) get a Bravo with either the 105 or 120 1.6MJ yet in the Giulietta only the 105 is available. If the Alfa is the more upmarket and more expensive car why does it have less power and therefore less performance. And why does the Mito have the 120 1.6 MJ whereas the Giulietta doesn't.
I would say that most potential buyers would feel a little peeved if they'd paid more for a larger car and then found it was slower than the tiddler.
I also don't understand why they think the 0.9 Twin Air is a viable motor in the larger cars. Technology moves on as we know, but in 2015, the Twin Air in a 500L is a bridge too far. Ask Ford if you don't believe me. The Eco Boost has had great reviews in the Fiesta and the Focus, but 1.0 litre is just too small for that size of car.
Maybe FIAT should use a modular system for the "Air" engines. 900 in two cylinders, 1250 in three and 1.4 and 1.8 with four cylinders. I know they're a bit close together, but not much closer than VW's 1.2 and 1.4. Vee-Dub are also running four ranges of cars excluding the exotics and seem to be doing pretty well. Ford were managing to run Volvo and Land Rover as well as Jag. They also managed to avoid clashes between Jaguar and Aston. On that basis they should be able to manage two.
They really do need to get their finger out, and quickly. They need to also develop or expand the process of tailoring vehicle technology to different markets. The 1.2 FIRE engine could be the base engine for Western Europe, but most of the others should be Twin Air or Multi Air along with MJ.
Other less developed markets could have older, more basic and therefore cheaper engines, but the EEC markets need the "tech" and they need trophy models. There's a reason why there have been XR3s, GTIs, HFs, Abarths and GTEs and there's a reason why the likes of Bertone, Zagato and Pinninfarina have been in demand for the last 60 + years. People want cars that look good, feel good and get great reviews on Top Gear and in magazines.
The 500 hasn't had great reviews but it looks good, so that's 50% of the battle. The GP when it came out also looked good and got some quite good write ups in the press. 100% success, but when the Bravo came out it looked ok but the boot was too small and with the Golf and Focus, driving manners had moved on leaving the Stilo derived chassis well behind.
If you look at reviews of Fords, even in the local press, one word that comes through again, and again is handling. In fact the only Ford that doesn't get good reviews for handling is.....yup, you guessed it, the Ka.
Unless they start making cars that people really want because they're well made with good performance and handling that are also good looking, they're screwed. That's why they need to look at developing more sophisticated suspension, make sure the oily bits are completely modern and style the cars as objects of desire. Oh, and that's why FIAT need a new Barchetta, right hand drive and looking good with 140 and 170 Multi Air Turbos under the bonnet. That's why they need the new MX5.
And this time there'll be no excuses for the lack of right hand drive.
I would say that most potential buyers would feel a little peeved if they'd paid more for a larger car and then found it was slower than the tiddler.
I also don't understand why they think the 0.9 Twin Air is a viable motor in the larger cars. Technology moves on as we know, but in 2015, the Twin Air in a 500L is a bridge too far. Ask Ford if you don't believe me. The Eco Boost has had great reviews in the Fiesta and the Focus, but 1.0 litre is just too small for that size of car.
Maybe FIAT should use a modular system for the "Air" engines. 900 in two cylinders, 1250 in three and 1.4 and 1.8 with four cylinders. I know they're a bit close together, but not much closer than VW's 1.2 and 1.4. Vee-Dub are also running four ranges of cars excluding the exotics and seem to be doing pretty well. Ford were managing to run Volvo and Land Rover as well as Jag. They also managed to avoid clashes between Jaguar and Aston. On that basis they should be able to manage two.
They really do need to get their finger out, and quickly. They need to also develop or expand the process of tailoring vehicle technology to different markets. The 1.2 FIRE engine could be the base engine for Western Europe, but most of the others should be Twin Air or Multi Air along with MJ.
Other less developed markets could have older, more basic and therefore cheaper engines, but the EEC markets need the "tech" and they need trophy models. There's a reason why there have been XR3s, GTIs, HFs, Abarths and GTEs and there's a reason why the likes of Bertone, Zagato and Pinninfarina have been in demand for the last 60 + years. People want cars that look good, feel good and get great reviews on Top Gear and in magazines.
The 500 hasn't had great reviews but it looks good, so that's 50% of the battle. The GP when it came out also looked good and got some quite good write ups in the press. 100% success, but when the Bravo came out it looked ok but the boot was too small and with the Golf and Focus, driving manners had moved on leaving the Stilo derived chassis well behind.
If you look at reviews of Fords, even in the local press, one word that comes through again, and again is handling. In fact the only Ford that doesn't get good reviews for handling is.....yup, you guessed it, the Ka.
Unless they start making cars that people really want because they're well made with good performance and handling that are also good looking, they're screwed. That's why they need to look at developing more sophisticated suspension, make sure the oily bits are completely modern and style the cars as objects of desire. Oh, and that's why FIAT need a new Barchetta, right hand drive and looking good with 140 and 170 Multi Air Turbos under the bonnet. That's why they need the new MX5.
And this time there'll be no excuses for the lack of right hand drive.
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2014
- Messages
- 4,579
- Points
- 828
We're not all like that. Quite frankly, I couldn't care less what the motoring press think of a car. Sure, a fiesta may well be able to corner a little quicker than a Punto, but the Punto absolutely thrashes the fiesta when it comes to style.
With regards to performance, I'd take a relatively gutless engine that's full of character over a powerful, characterless engine any day.
I would say the current Fiesta actually looks very smart in the right colour and wheels.
Yes the Punto looked good when it first came out, it's now looking dated but that's my opinion.
The gutless engines in the Punto ie the 1.28v and 1.48v are not full of character, they are old and slow and competitive, sound like a standard engine and not joyous to use.
Yes the Punto looked good when it first came out, it's now looking dated but that's my opinion.
The gutless engines in the Punto ie the 1.28v and 1.48v are not full of character, they are old and slow and competitive, sound like a standard engine and not joyous to use.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2014
- Messages
- 4,579
- Points
- 828
Fiestas are ridiculously overrated. After the completely bland previous models, they went ott with the current model. And that grille on the facelift version: plain daft.
The Punto still looks every bit as good now as it did when it was first launched. Giugiaro got the styling absolutely perfect. Granted, the current version has lost the purity of the original Grande, but it's still the only supermini I'd consider if I was in the market for a brand new car. I've had my Grande for 9 months now, and I still absolutely love the design, and find meself just admiring it. Certainly, I'm in no doubt: when I time comes to replace it, I want another Punto.
As for the engines, I have the 77bhp 1.4 8v, and I personally think it feels very revvy and eager, and I genuinely like the noise. It certainly sounds far better than the Corsa mk2 1.2 TwinPort that my parents replaced their old mk2 Punto with. With regards to performance, given the weight of the car, I think it does a pretty good job!
Fiestas are not ridiculously overrated, having driven over 50 odd different cars over the years and owned a GP for 6 years I can tell you their is s marked difference.
Again my opinion but I wouldn't buy a car simply because it looked good on the outside when the rest is dated and not great to own/drive.
The 1.48v is past its best now, it's on okay engine that functions in the car it's in. It's not remotely sporty at all, but no more disappointing than the 1.48v that sat in the bonnet of 207's.
Again my opinion but I wouldn't buy a car simply because it looked good on the outside when the rest is dated and not great to own/drive.
The 1.48v is past its best now, it's on okay engine that functions in the car it's in. It's not remotely sporty at all, but no more disappointing than the 1.48v that sat in the bonnet of 207's.
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2014
- Messages
- 4,579
- Points
- 828
I love driving my Grande. I have no complaints with the driving experience at all. Great car.
I absolutely hate some of the current superminis: horrible, fussy "styling" inside and out.
The current Clio is as much of an eyesore as the fiesta. My parents have an old mk2 Clio and it still makes so much sense today: styling which hasn't been improved on by the subsequent clios, good on fuel, fairly safe, and from what I understand, good fun to drive, too. Just because a car is old, that doesn't mean it stops being good, and the current Punto is a prime example of that.
I wish I could say something positive with the Grande but I will struggle to with the all the issues I had.
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2014
- Messages
- 4,579
- Points
- 828
Just because you had issues with yours, that doesn't mean that the Grande is a terrible car. I get the impression that a lot of people are very happy with theirs. Myself included.
I often ignore what the press say as well, however, there are plenty who do. The only time I've seen a review where the Bravo came out on top of the Focus was in a diesel Sport vs. Sport test and that was only because the FIAT engine was better. In virtually every other aspect the best the Bravo could manage was a draw or slight win. In the "Conclusion" section was the subject of handling in which the Focus got 4 stars and the Bravo 2.
I happen to like Italian cars and, for me, the Panda MJ was by far the best car of its type on the market - at the time.
There's also the issue of how often FIAT and Alfa cars are tested in magazines and on TV, which nowadays is almost never. First impressions of the 500X is the only one I've seen for a while. The likes of Autocar, Top Gear, What Car and company show Kias and Hyundais, Seats and VWs, Renaults and Citroens but very rarely now FIATs. In other words they've dropped out of the public eye. VW can get away with that because of their large repeat customer base, our lot no longer have that, if they ever did.
I was speaking to some blokes at work the other day and the subject of cars we'e owned came up. Four of them, (including me) out of six said that they'd had Italian cars in the past, including Alfasuds, Strada Abarth 130TC and Delta HF and Integrales. Yes they'd had breakdowns and bits fall off but all looked back at those cars through rose tinted spectacles and that meant they had a soft spot for the cars we like, love even.
The problem is that when we move to today, the charisma those cars had is lacking even if they're more reliable and those guys see next to nothing made now that they want to buy. Yes one of their wives has a 500 but the rest all drive German cars. 3-Series, 5-Series, Golf GTi, Golf Bluemotion, Audi A3, A2, Polo and an Up?
I can get by with the driving characteristics of the Panda and I like the car in general, but every time I go round a bend I think that the steering has nothing like the directness of the old Fiestas and Focus. I could place a Focus at high speed through a bend from kerb to cats' eyes to kerb almost with my eyes shut, and I could do it time after time either on racing line or late apex. It was also a pretty radical design both inside and out, and I have to say, when we look for something to replace Mrs. Beard's 156 next year then, at the present state of play, it won't be a FIAT. The only thing in the stable that might attract me is the Giulietta. Outside the family it would probably be a Focus.
I have driven a Panda 1.3 multijet and a 1.4 100hp - both cars were great fun to drive and put a massive smile on my face compared to my Grande. I wanted to love the Grande but I couldn't.
I have driven a Guillietta 1.4 Turbo for a week on holiday. It was on okay car car, did not like the DNA switch and it has got very soft suspension and no steering feel. Also trim issues inside.
I have got a MK3 Focus and I am very happy with it, the way it drives trim etc.
We also have an Audi A3 - not as well built as you would think and slightly dull to drive even though it's the 2.0tsi 197bhp.
I have driven a Guillietta 1.4 Turbo for a week on holiday. It was on okay car car, did not like the DNA switch and it has got very soft suspension and no steering feel. Also trim issues inside.
I have got a MK3 Focus and I am very happy with it, the way it drives trim etc.
We also have an Audi A3 - not as well built as you would think and slightly dull to drive even though it's the 2.0tsi 197bhp.
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2014
- Messages
- 4,579
- Points
- 828
That is a little odd: I absolutely love my Grande to bits. I love every minute of driving it: giving the engine a bit of welly, chucking it around corners, I like the excellent brakes, the gearchange is good. I had wanted a Grande ever since I first saw it in top gear magazine, and when I finally bought mine last year, it just doesn't disappoint.
I'm genuinely pleased that you like your car, and honestly hope you don't have the problems I had which you shouldn't really as mine was a 1.9 m-jet.
In one year alone it cost nearly £3k to fix in faults. This was a car was well looked after with a full service history and used mainly on the motorway.
In one year alone it cost nearly £3k to fix in faults. This was a car was well looked after with a full service history and used mainly on the motorway.
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2014
- Messages
- 4,579
- Points
- 828
Hopefully it should be ok. My old mk2b was well behaved, as was my parents old mk2. I recently had to change the alternator, but the recovery bloke said he was getting sent to absolutely loads of alternator cases, on alsorts of cars, of all ages.
Not the best, it's terrible!
The engine line up is also poor IMO, the best performer being the 1.0 turbo (113bhp) which is strangely more powerful than the 1.4 Turbo (98bhp).
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/vauxhall/corsa/hatchback-2014/
Then they continue to brand some the questionable "Limited Edition" spec. You know the ones you see everywhere with the woefully slow 1.2 petrol or 1.3CDTi engines, the bodykit and big black alloys.
Can you tell I don't like this brand?
Attachments
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2014
- Messages
- 4,579
- Points
- 828
I'd take Vauxhall over ford or Peugeot any day, lol!
But, of course, Fiat is preferable to everything, lol!
The 'new' face lifted Corsa looks terrible.
Today I am driving a Fiesta 1.0 3cyl 125bhp Titanium X whilst mine is having its MOT.
It is a really good car, driving it is amazing from the ride, steering, handling it's all spot on even though it's on 17" wheels.
The engine is very good, quick and sounds good.
The build quality is not the plastics is also very good.
It's a vast improvement on the early basic 1.25's when this model first came out, I didn't rate that one highly.
If I compare it to my old Grande that was also top of the range, their is no comparison.
Today I am driving a Fiesta 1.0 3cyl 125bhp Titanium X whilst mine is having its MOT.
It is a really good car, driving it is amazing from the ride, steering, handling it's all spot on even though it's on 17" wheels.
The engine is very good, quick and sounds good.
The build quality is not the plastics is also very good.
It's a vast improvement on the early basic 1.25's when this model first came out, I didn't rate that one highly.
If I compare it to my old Grande that was also top of the range, their is no comparison.
