Technical Wheel bolt torque settings

[Communicator]

Oh no I will have to re-check

To be precise it actually says 16 daNm, and 18daNm respectively. Can be viewed here.

 

[jackwhoo]

To be precise it actually says 16 daNm, and 18daNm respectively. Can be viewed here.

The x250 elearn has the same figures you have for x244 -I zoomed in on the image I was referencing to see more clearly.
Thank you for pointing out my mistake, I have edited previous posts to show 180nm for m16 bolts.

Best wishes

J

 

[MSjoberg]

If it was a panel van it would have been sold new as a heavy chassis

Is that something that varies with the year of manufacture or perhaps which market/country it was produced for? My 2018 6.36 m panel van definitely has a light chassie, like others I've seen.

 

[Reg 65]

Well I am going by the order form when I ordered new L4 X2/50 and X2/90 panel vans as a private buyer here in the UK. The Heavy version was standard on the L4 and optional on the L1 - 3. Heavy is axle weights of 2100kg front and 2400kg rear - bigger brake discs and hubs, larger PCD for the wheel bolts
But apparently they started supplying L4 light versions to motorhome converters keen to save on weight and cost. They had different 16" wheels for the smaller hubs and wheel bolt PCD.

 

[the green vanper]

I'm 100% sure my chassis is a maxi one and the plate under the bonnet says the following:

I've checked in an aftermarket workshop manual, it says 180 Nm for the M16 bolts.

 

[RS3100]

Yes, new light chassis vans are (optionally?) being fitted with 130PCD hubs and 16 inch wheels. But irrespective of whether the OPs van is light or heavy, all that matters is that it has 16 inch wheels and 16mm wheel bolts. Therefore the correct torque should be 180 Nm.

 

[Reg 65]

Is that something that varies with the year of manufacture or perhaps which market/country it was produced for? My 2018 6.36 m panel van definitely has a light chassie, like others I've seen.

Yes, new light chassis vans are (optionally?) being fitted with 130PCD hubs and 16 inch wheels. But irrespective of whether the OPs van is light or heavy, all that matters is that it has 16 inch wheels and 16mm wheel bolts. Therefore the correct torque should be 180 Nm.

OK Thanks - maybe I am out of date as usual. But I still can't see that option on the order form for private panel van buyers.
I wonder if they are fitting the bigger disc brakes to go with the 130PCD M16 hubs? I doubt it because then they could upgrade the front axle to 2100kg same as the heavy. Its invariably the front axle that gets overloaded, especially on the L1 - 3 vans as they made the wheelbase longer than it should be to accommodate the big side loading door.

 

[the green vanper]

One information that could add a little bit to what FIAT is doing: the vans are now produced in two different factories under six (?) makes

I don't know if the factories are somehow specialized, I'm 100% Gliwice factory is producing panel vans, as I seen them frequently on the roads on lorries.

 

[RS3100]

OK Thanks - maybe I am out of date as usual. But I still can't see that option on the order form for private panel van buyers.
I wonder if they are fitting the bigger disc brakes to go with the 130PCD M16 hubs? I doubt it because then they could upgrade the front axle to 2100kg same as the heavy. Its invariably the front axle that gets overloaded, especially on the L1 - 3 vans as they made the wheelbase longer than it should be to accommodate the big side loading door.

I know that Vantage Motorhomes have been building light chassis vans with 16 inch wheels for several years now, due to customer demand. Originally these were on 118 PCD Fiat alloys, but it appears that their current vans are on the 130 PCD hubs. Perhaps Fiat decided to rationalise hub size due to more recent fashion and demand?

Whether it's a motorhome thing or across the range I don't know. Vantage buy bare panel vans like most other PVC builders, but they order them with options such as deleted front bulkhead, twin captains chairs, twin leaf rear springs, conversion socket, etc.

 

[CamperDoctor]

I know this is going slightly off topic to a debate I started with the wheel bolt torque question….. But does anybody know where I can get a definitive repository on information (apart from this forum) that supplies me with torque info for other parts (for a 2024 model year vehicle - there’s lots for earlier vans). Going forward I may want to up-rate rear the shocks and maybe look at the springs (possibly adding a second leaf) to improve the ride height and pot hole defence. Because my van is a Panel Van motor home conversion it sits at 3400kg almost all the time. Hence it’s riding close to the limit of the suspension, and so introducing some safety capacity would be sensible for the longer term life of components.

 

[RS3100]

I know this is going slightly off topic to a debate I started with the wheel bolt torque question….. But does anybody know where I can get a definitive repository on information (apart from this forum) that supplies me with torque info for other parts (for a 2024 model year vehicle - there’s lots for earlier vans). Going forward I may want to up-rate rear the shocks and maybe look at the springs (possibly adding a second leaf) to improve the ride height and pot hole defence. Because my van is a Panel Van motor home conversion it sits at 3400kg almost all the time. Hence it’s riding close to the limit of the suspension, and so introducing some safety capacity would be sensible for the longer term life of components.

Much of the mechanical aspects of the vans are exactly the same as shown in the eLearn manual for the X250. Changes mainly relate to engines and transmissions, if not the 5/6 speed manual box, and updates to electronic equipment. For suspension and similar body or chassis components, you are pretty safe with the eLearn data.

 

[the green vanper]

Going forward I may want to up-rate rear the shocks and maybe look at the springs (possibly adding a second leaf) to improve the ride height and pot hole defence. Because my van is a Panel Van motor home conversion it sits at 3400kg almost all the time. Hence it’s riding close to the limit of the suspension, and so introducing some safety capacity would be sensible for the longer term life of components.

Instead of adding a second leaf add pneumatic airbags. It is the best solution for campers. Driving comfort / stability upgrade + levelling possibility is a great advantage.

 

[Reg 65]

I know this is going slightly off topic to a debate I started with the wheel bolt torque question….. But does anybody know where I can get a definitive repository on information (apart from this forum) that supplies me with torque info for other parts (for a 2024 model year vehicle - there’s lots for earlier vans). Going forward I may want to up-rate rear the shocks and maybe look at the springs (possibly adding a second leaf) to improve the ride height and pot hole defence. Because my van is a Panel Van motor home conversion it sits at 3400kg almost all the time. Hence it’s riding close to the limit of the suspension, and so introducing some safety capacity would be sensible for the longer term life of components.

Have you weighed the rear axle?
Even though mine is also an L4 with longest rear overhang, it still has more weight on the front
Which of course won't be helped by stronger leaf springs.
The deep tyres are a good defence against potholes - especially if you set the pressures according to your own axle weight;

https://www.tyresafe.org/motorhome-tyre-pressure/

 

[CamperDoctor]

Instead of adding a second leaf add pneumatic airbags. It is the best solution for campers. Driving comfort / stability upgrade + levelling possibility is a great advantage.

I had considered the airbag approach, but I’m a bit concerned about the duty cycle they’ll be put through. Are they rated for continuous suspension support? My understanding of the standard rubber suspension assisters is that they serve two roles. The most obvious is as bump stops to limit travel under compression. The second is as a progressive suspension element. The leaf spring gives the first stage of suspension, the rubber assisted gives the second stage. Because my van is continuously sat on the rubber suspension assisters, this would mean the air bags would be under load all the time.
I probably shouldn’t dilute this thread any further with suspension related conversations - I’ll start a new thread in a few weeks time (if one doesn’t already exist) to help understand the rear suspension options - how it impacts vehicle insurance - does it require new shocks to damp out the new spring characteristic’s etc

 

[CamperDoctor]

Yep I hav

Have you weighed the rear axle?
Even though mine is also an L4 with longest rear overhang, it still has more weight on the front
Which of course won't be helped by stronger leaf springs.
The deep tyres are a good defence against potholes - especially if you set the pressures according to your own axle weight;

https://www.tyresafe.org/motorhome-tyre-pressure/

I’ve weighed both axles plus vehicle overall when really fully loaded. You’re right that the front is closer the axle limit than the rear. I deliberately filled all the vehicle tanks, fuel, ad-blue, fresh and grey water, lpg, just to see the absolutely worse case. Can’t remember the axle split to hand but the van including two occupants came in at 3240KG. I was reasonably happy that any extra loading would appear mostly on the rear axle, because the rear storage cabinets were mostly empty apart from 2x20litres of water in cans to try and represent two bikes.

 

[RS3100]

I had considered the airbag approach, but I’m a bit concerned about the duty cycle they’ll be put through. Are they rated for continuous suspension support? My understanding of the standard rubber suspension assisters is that they serve two roles. The most obvious is as bump stops to limit travel under compression. The second is as a progressive suspension element. The leaf spring gives the first stage of suspension, the rubber assisted gives the second stage. Because my van is continuously sat on the rubber suspension assisters, this would mean the air bags would be under load all the time.
I probably shouldn’t dilute this thread any further with suspension related conversations - I’ll start a new thread in a few weeks time (if one doesn’t already exist) to help understand the rear suspension options - how it impacts vehicle insurance - does it require new shocks to damp out the new spring characteristic’s etc

The airbags are meant to be under load all of the time, since they replace the standard suspension assisters. But like your tyres which are also under load, they only take a more substantial load when under compression due to suspension movement whilst driving. Unlike the standard cone assisters, they are under some load all of the time, because they don't just start to take a load under a particular amount of spring compression. The idea is that you inflate them according to te load on the vehicle, as necessary to restore the original spring compressions and ride height. The Dunlop airbags for the Ducato rear suspension are each rated to 714 kgf at 7 bar static inflation pressure. On my 6 metre panel van, I have them inflated to just under 2 bar / 25 psi, which I find more than adequate for my van when fully laden including a full underslung 90 litre fresh water tank. What they do is to reduce the harshness of the original suspension because the airbags are more compliant than the cone assisters. They also reduce roll when cornering and aid general stability, particularly noticeable on motorways or multi lane carriageways when passing or being passed by large vehicles. No changes to springs or shocks are required.

As for insurance, they made no difference at all for me. My insurer (Comfort/Aviva) just replied that they had noted the modification on my records, with no change in premium.

 

[CamperDoctor]

The airbags are meant to be under load all of the time, since they replace the standard suspension assisters. But like your tyres which are also under load, they only take a more substantial load when under compression due to suspension movement whilst driving. Unlike the standard cone assisters, they are under some load all of the time, because they don't just start to take a load under a particular amount of spring compression. The idea is that you inflate them according to te load on the vehicle, as necessary to restore the original spring compressions and ride height. The Dunlop airbags for the Ducato rear suspension are each rated to 714 kgf at 7 bar static inflation pressure. On my 6 metre panel van, I have them inflated to just under 2 bar / 25 psi, which I find more than adequate for my van when fully laden including a full underslung 90 litre fresh water tank. What they do is to reduce the harshness of the original suspension because the airbags are more compliant than the cone assisters. They also reduce roll when cornering and aid general stability, particularly noticeable on motorways or multi lane carriageways when passing or being passed by large vehicles. No changes to springs or shocks are required.

As for insurance, they made no difference at all for me. My insurer (Comfort/Aviva) just replied that they had noted the modification on my records, with no change in premium.

That’s really useful info, many thanks….!
I think I’ll do a bit of reading on airbag brands and then fit the rears myself.