What's made you smile today?

[StevenRB45]

I tend to find leaving the Aircon on permanently reduces the maintenance costs significantly.

Although given I drive a black estate car with many many un-tinted windows and a largely black interior working air con is already invaluable even in the April sun we've had.

Legionaries needs warm standing water, there's none of that in a car A/C system. You're more likely to get it off your washer jets if you don't use screen wash than your AC.

 

[bugsymike]

I tend to find leaving the Aircon on permanently reduces the maintenance costs significantly.

Although given I drive a black estate car with many many un-tinted windows and a largely black interior working air con is already invaluable even in the April sun we've had.

Legionaries needs warm standing water, there's none of that in a car A/C system. You're more likely to get it off your washer jets if you don't use screen wash than your AC.

My Skoda is a black estate, but as I say the electric sun roof works well.
Re the screen wash I agree, many years ago I got a VW leaflet promoting their parts including screen wash additive and the mentioned a survey that found a higher proportion of white van men were catching Legionnaires disease and put it down to them driving close to the vehicles in front with the windows down and the other motorists using the screen washers possibly with washing up liquid in them and mouldy water which their product would have prevented as it was anti bacterial. I do use the correct additive.
Not sure if I have just been lucky , but the amount of screenwasher jets and pipes I have blown through in the last 55 years?
Mind you I draw the line at carb jets these days as the taste tends to linger.

 

[StevenRB45]

Ah yes, but unfortunately the only "sun roof" option on the Auris would have been a full length glass panel which did not open... compounding rather than reducing the need for AC.

Although if I could have found one I'd have loved it..

The conditions for legionnaires are so weirdly specific it's quite a chain of events. I'd imagine say my Uno where the screen wash was on the bulkhead behind the engine was more likely to generate it than a modern car with a bottle behind the front bumper.

 

[bugsymike]

The conditions for legionnaires are so weirdly specific it's quite a chain of events. I'd imagine say my Uno where the screen wash was on the bulkhead behind the engine was more likely to generate it than a modern car with a bottle behind the front bumper.

Many cars I have worked on had jets and one way valves blocked and the screen wash bottle has been full of gungy black muck needing cleaning out with bleach before fixing the rest of the problem. It used to be quite common.
I was going to ask if Jock was familiar with it as TPS was the VW parts company the trade used.

 

[StevenRB45]

Many cars I have worked on had jets and one way valves blocked and the screen wash bottle has been full of gungy black muck needing cleaning out with bleach before fixing the rest of the problem. It used to be quite common.

Yes but this is likely Mold or mildew build up, you wouldn't want to drink from it but it doesn't cause legionaries.

You're looking for fresh water that maintains a temperature that is between 25 and 50 degrees for long periods to encourage bacterial growth...and then you need to inhale droplets from it.

Hence why the AC system has no risk as there's no water in it as the system is air cooled and the refrigerant has no water.

 

[portland_bill]

Legionaries needs warm standing water, there's none of that in a car A/C system. You're more likely to get it off your washer jets if you don't use screen wash than your AC.

As the incoming air is cooled, some water will condense out of it. Like raindrops on windows, when the droplets get big enough, they will run down, and out the drain, which is why aircon cars leave puddles when parked. However, when the aircon is turned off, or the car parked, some droplets will remain inside. This will allow bacteria to start to grow. How much, and how fast will depend on how long it is left before being used again, and of course the ambient temperature. A particularly damp, but warm day, will provide lots of water, and then if left for a few warm days, diseases are more likely.
Leave it on all the time, including winter, and use the vehicle regularly, and risk is low. Ideally, disinfect annually.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I tend to find leaving the Aircon on permanently reduces the maintenance costs significantly.

Although given I drive a black estate car with many many un-tinted windows and a largely black interior working air con is already invaluable even in the April sun we've had.

Legionaries needs warm standing water, there's none of that in a car A/C system. You're more likely to get it off your washer jets if you don't use screen wash than your AC.

We do one guaranteed "long" trip every week which is out south of the city to take the grandchildren swimming - keeps me fit too! It's roughly a 45 minute journey each way with a bit of local shuttling around between their house and the pool, maybe for a snack after the swimming too. I always have the Air Con on for this journey which keeps it fresh and working even if I don't need it.

My Skoda is a black estate, but as I say the electric sun roof works well.
Re the screen wash I agree, many years ago I got a VW leaflet promoting their parts including screen wash additive and the mentioned a survey that found a higher proportion of white van men were catching Legionnaires disease and put it down to them driving close to the vehicles in front with the windows down and the other motorists using the screen washers possibly with washing up liquid in them and mouldy water which their product would have prevented as it was anti bacterial. I do use the correct additive.
Not sure if I have just been lucky , but the amount of screenwasher jets and pipes I have blown through in the last 55 years?
Mind you I draw the line at carb jets these days as the taste tends to linger.

I've never heard of Legionnaires "lurking" in the screen wash bottle - interesting. I've used proprietary screen wash additive most of my life, often because there were sachets of it hanging around in the garages where I worked which I would be allowed to take for free. When I moved from Firestone Racing over to the Tyre and Auto division and became a working workshop foreman/supervisor we had a very proactive Wynns rep who would frequently "entertain" us during morning tea breaks and at lunchtime with demonstrations of their latest products, which were multitudinous (there were a lot of them). The one which involved an electric motor spinning an inner ball race while a stationary roller bearing was loaded against it to prove how good their antifriction additive was always amused and drew comments! I particularly remember him giving us a talk on screenwash and one of it's virtues which he was strongly pushing was it's antimicrobial action but also that it contained a lubricant for the wee pump impellor. These pumps contain (or did back then anyway) a rubber bladed impellor which was prone to seizing to the outer case and wasn't helped at all by using washing up liquid - which many people did/still do. If you don't know about washing up liquid and screen washers then DO NOT USE IT. I've been told that not only does it degrade parts of the pump but also many washing up liquid formulations contain salt as a "bulking agent" and the last thing you want is for a quite concentrated solution containing salt to be trickling down into the seams of your bodywork! I buy screenwash concentrate from my local factor in 5 litre containers and dilute it one third with distilled or deionized water which can be bought from supermarkets, factors, etc, etc for next to nothing - I keep your eyes open for special offers and buy a few 5 litre containers at a time as I also use it for mixing up coolant. I never get problems with washer jets, pickup pipe filters or pumps blocking up and I genuinely can't remember when I last fitted a new pump.

Mike, I'm not sure if the taste of screen wash or antifreeze lingers longer? When I first started out my mentor, an experienced mechanic, showed me how to check Bluecol antifreeze by dipping my finger in it and licking it. Basically, if it tasted nice and sweet, then it was deemed to be serviceable! Noone mentioned antifreeze is pretty toxic stuff, containing methanol and other "nasty stuff". I did this for several years on most "big" services I did (big as against just a lube service) because it saved bonus time by not having to go to the stores, book out the hydrometer, test the coolant, rinse out with clean water and return it to the stores. That is until I moved to a BMC main dealer and got told off by the foreman! Quite a mild rebuke actually. Nowadays I'm sure you would be told you would die tomorrow if not sooner!

 

[bugsymike]

Just done a quick search.:-
Yes, screen wash bottles can harbor Legionnaires' disease bacteria. Stagnant, warm water in the reservoir can create a breeding ground for the Legionella bacterium, which can cause Legionnaires' disease when inhaled. Using screen wash, which contains a biocide, helps to kill the bacteria.

 

[StevenRB45]

As the incoming air is cooled, some water will condense out of it. Like raindrops on windows, when the droplets get big enough, they will run down, and out the drain, which is why aircon cars leave puddles when parked. However, when the aircon is turned off, or the car parked, some droplets will remain inside. This will allow bacteria to start to grow. How much, and how fast will depend on how long it is left before being used again, and of course the ambient temperature. A particularly damp, but warm day, will provide lots of water, and then if left for a few warm days, diseases are more likely.
Leave it on all the time, including winter, and use the vehicle regularly, and risk is low. Ideally, disinfect annually.

In this chain of events how does water from the drain re-enter the vehicle as droplets? Yes there's water but it's outside the system and a by-product of cooling rather than a part of it and discarded outside of the vent system it should exit at the bottom of the evaporator onto the ground. This would continue for a long as the evaporator is cold enough to condense the water out of the air. If it's cold enough to be condensing water...it's too cold for legionnaires. If it's warm enough for legionnaires it's too warm to extract water from air.

No screen wash + an open window is a much more likely route.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Many cars I have worked on had jets and one way valves blocked and the screen wash bottle has been full of gungy black muck needing cleaning out with bleach before fixing the rest of the problem. It used to be quite common.
I was going to ask if Jock was familiar with it as TPS was the VW parts company the trade used.

Yes, the "gunge" was common. I've experienced the black mouldy type but also, maybe more common, was a creamy white stuff which invariably blocked the wee mesh filter on the pickup pipe. I think often exacerbated (phwor, big word for me that is) by folk using washing up liquid.

TPS? yes. I used to buy stuff there until they demanded a trade account and stopped selling to me on the strength of my IMI membership card. Actually not such a great loss now a days as there are OEM parts available which are of excellent quality from my local factor. I'm not sure what you're asking if I may be familiar with? or was it just did I know of TPS? - For those who are wondering what we're talking about this is who TPS are: https://tps.trade/ If I remember right TPS stands for Trade Part Supplies? Been so long since I've heard anyone refer to the whole name I can't remember exactly.

 

[bugsymike]

TPS? yes. I used to buy stuff there until they demanded a trade account and stopped selling to me on the strength of my IMI membership card. Actually not such a great loss now a days as there are OEM parts available which are of excellent quality from my local factor. I'm not sure what you're asking if I may be familiar with? or was it just did I know of TPS? - For those who are wondering what we're talking about this is who TPS are: https://tps.trade/ If I remember right TPS stands for Trade Part Supplies? Been so long since I've heard anyone refer to the whole name I can't remember exactly.

No, what it was Jock, was if you had seen the newsletter I was referring to about the legionaires in the screenwash as I think it was them who mentioned.
Anyway I see it is confirmed online.
By the way I stopped tasting antifreeze in coolant after hearing about people, short of coolant "peeing" in the radiator.
I have used a Smiths coolant tester for many years.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

No, what it was Jock, was if you had seen the newsletter I was referring to about the legionaires in the screenwash as I think it was them who mentioned.
Anyway I see it is confirmed online.
By the way I stopped tasting antifreeze in coolant after hearing about people, short of coolant "peeing" in the radiator.
I have used a Smiths coolant tester for many years.

No Mike, I never did see that. In fact I don't remember ever hearing of the problem at all but then I did stop earning my daily crust on the tools over 30 years ago and spent my last 15 working years in grounds maintenance with my wonderful squad of learning disabled gardeners.

Exciting day today. Becky is round at Kenny's garage having a new front road spring fitted! so I was up with the lark to get her round there for starting time. It broke as Mrs J was turning off the Ferry road towards her swimming pool and the bang gave her quite a fright! It's the O/S/F and it's lost the bottom turn on the spring. Luckily the spring stayed in the pan on the strut so I was able to drive it the couple of miles to his garage. I trust these guys completely so haven't even asked for a price - now thinking it'll be "exciting" to see what they charge me. I rebuilt the front suspension in 2017 including Suplex springs etc all from Shop4parts. Her annual mileage averages out at around 1,000 to 2,000 miles a year so maybe I'll get away with just the one spring - the N/S/F one looks pretty good still. The pothole situation in our city is pretty dire and Mrs J is very poor at avoiding them so I'm sure that's the culprit. Unfortunately she doesn't seem to get the hang of going over speed bumps slow enough to minimize compression of the road springs either. Ah well, she has other qualities which far out way this disadvantage - she's very good with money and oh boy, can she cook! Oh, and I love her very much and can forgive her almost anything!

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Leigionaires is a reportable illness in the uk.

It really is very rare that people come down with it. Home aircon systems seem to be more prone than cars. Usually as a home aircon system will sit unused all winter then gets fired up in the summer, except it’s sat with condensation trapped inside the ducts and pipes for the last 6 months, where as a car air con system will still blow hot air through the same pipes in the winter even if the aircon it turned off the ac system is never fully dormant.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Just back from picking up Becky from Kenny's garage. It all went largely according to plan but a new top mount and a couple of odds and ends inflated the bill a bit. I wasn't expecting the top mount as I'd replaced both when I rebuilt the front suspension in 2017, shortly after we bought her. However that means it is some seven years old, so no "spring chicken? The spring on the N/S is looking very good with very little evidence of rusting although, now the O/S top mount is new you can see that the N/S one is allowing the damper rod to protrude slightly higher into the engine bay - It'll be fine for a while yet though.

The price of the parts was almost identical to the labour charge and, by the time the dreaded VAT was added in the whole lot came to just the wrong side of £200. A little more than I'd budgeted for but I don't think an unreasonable amount. Oh, and the foreman himself did the job!

There's been one very unexpected outcome though - I felt no sign of the slight pull to the nearside when driving in a straight line which has been with her all the time we've owned her! It seems to have disappeared! Could it have been something to do with that top mount? Might I have assembled it wrongly in some way? Have to say I doubt it but I'm puzzled. On the other hand I'm delighted, she feels lovely now!

 

[portland_bill]

In this chain of events how does water from the drain re-enter the vehicle as droplets? Yes there's water but it's outside the system and a by-product of cooling rather than a part of it and discarded outside of the vent system it should exit at the bottom of the evaporator onto the ground. This would continue for a long as the evaporator is cold enough to condense the water out of the air. If it's cold enough to be condensing water...it's too cold for legionnaires. If it's warm enough for legionnaires it's too warm to extract water from air.

No screen wash + an open window is a much more likely route.

The aircon gas system, that provides the cooling is sealed, of course.
Inside the heater box is a simple radiator, like the one at the front of the car, through which the incoming air passes. The air is cooled by the aircon system, which causes water to condense onto this radiator, inside the heater box. Large droplets will run to the bottom of the box, and out through the drain, unless it is blocked, in which case it will drain into the footwell.
Smaller droplets remain, until they grow. If the aircon is turned off, those droplets can be collected by warmer incoming air and carried into the cabin.
Every time the car is stopped, the remaining water droplets will gently become the same temperature as ambient. If they remain there long enough, bacteria will grow. Next time the car is used, normal airflow through the heater box into the cabin, will bring some of that water with it. Even if the aircon is on immediately, it will take a while to achieve its normal cold temps.

Worst case of added moisture is if the aircon is used when raining, then turned off. When raining, running the aircon will remove some moisture from the incoming air, helping keep the windows clear, without having to make it unbearably warm. However, if turned off, the incoming warmer air, already very humid, will bring the extra with it, usually immediately clouding the windows.

 

[The Panda Nut]

As the incoming air is cooled, some water will condense out of it. Like raindrops on windows, when the droplets get big enough, they will run down, and out the drain, which is why aircon cars leave puddles when parked. However, when the aircon is turned off, or the car parked, some droplets will remain inside. This will allow bacteria to start to grow. How much, and how fast will depend on how long it is left before being used again, and of course the ambient temperature. A particularly damp, but warm day, will provide lots of water, and then if left for a few warm days, diseases are more likely.
Leave it on all the time, including winter, and use the vehicle regularly, and risk is low. Ideally, disinfect annually.

Legionnaires or mould spores I donrt want to breath it. I've never seen or smelled anything that I felt need cleaning yet, but a general clean early is probably a good thing rather than leave things until there is a problem. I now use rain water or distilled in the washers with additive to avoid limescale blockages which we would otherwise suffer. 90% strength additive if below freezing should kill off most screen washer things I hope.

 

[AnthonyH]

I bought a new key fob case and silicone cover, it was a bit fiddly getting the old blade on to the new fob case. I managed it with the help of a youtube video.

The buttons on the old case had worn out, sometimes it took 3 presses to open the car door.

I bought the cover because i only have the one key and don't want to drop it and have it break.