Technical What will you do where your brakes wear out ?

[loveshandbags]

After Kay500's thread when it 'dipped into brakes' it was nice to see that someone had dabbled with 'improving' the standard brakes on the 500. Even the U.S. are at at it as well.

So when your pads and discs wear out (quite common on the rear discs on the 1.4) what will you do ?

You could opt for the standard pads or upgrade to a slightly more 'sticky' pad and the discs - would you replace with the same or will you opt for dimples, grooves or slots for the 'look'.
Here's a 'sample' explanation of some of the different types of pads...
http://www.brakes4u.co.uk/supersearch.asp?supt=1&id=2125&won=1

So if you change e.g. the pads will they make more noise and would you have to 'match' the fancier pads with even fancier discs.

Came across an interesting video on the Mintex website over the w/e - it's a bit long but the technical update in the latter half is interesting and given the amount of wasted energy in a 'big brake' it makes you think about regenerative braking (this was 'touched on' before with electric cars).

And I'll finish with a photo of an L driver this morning.

 

[Heidi]

Lol when I read the title was just going to write 'replace them'

Anyway, I've had my brakes and discs replaced already....has them done at local independent ford franchise....no idea what spec but assume standard KA ones. Apart from a bit of squeaking they seem fine.

Then again I'm not a 'car' person, I know nothing about cars and engines etc. Lol

 

[ahmett]

I think the fiat 500's brakes are good enough especially all discs on the 1.4. I don't plan on changing them until the brake light goes on in the car. I think the service people would tell me to change the discs and pads even if they arent worn down at the first service

 

[arorat]

Lol when I read the title was just going to write 'replace them'

Heidi, that is what I thought too, get the same parts and "replace them". Sorry Michael I am making fun of it, its been a long day

 

[306maxi]

Tbh for a 1.2 the brakes are fine, if I were to make any modification it would be to get a set of Abarth brakes just to get rid of the rear drums purely for looks. Even better would be to get a set of Brembo 6 pots from a Tributo.

 

[mjsmke]

I got pads and discs for my old 1.2 punto for £25 from halfords (trade card!) so it shouldnt be much more for the 1.4.

We'll probably only keep the car for 3-4 years so i'd go for standard parts.

I've not had an issue with the performance of the standard brakes yet.

 

[306maxi]

Punto probably had solid discs, you'll probably pay double at least for 1.4 front discs.

 

[pearce_jj]

Planning ahead and using the gears to slow down (touch the brake pedle to show the lights of course) can save quite a bit of fuel and brake wear. Personally I find the standard anchors adequate on the odd occasion I've really needed them.

 

[grimwau]

I bought a set of standard A500 front and rear pads with delivery mileage only (SS Upgrade) for £8.50 off ebay. I'll be fitting them myself if they actually wear out whilst I still own the car.

 

[jeffreyli86]

Hello all,

Thought I would just chime in after Michael very kindly invited me to this thread.

I have a Fiat 500 100hp and I have probably done pretty much everything to mod it (less the major works like cams and whatnot but it is planned )..

For the brakes, I have EBC grooved disks all round, braided brake lines and Ferodo DS2500 front pads and EBC red stuff rears..

Originally, I had EBC Red Stuff for the fronts too, but as I am quite spirited in my driving (as safe as possible and none of those boy racer moves), the Red Stuff gave up very soon. First, they overheated on a long downhill run, so I let them cool down, but thing is, once they have been overheated, they are cooked and never provides the performance they once gave.. It became dangerously weak when cold (and in Hong Kong, the coolest you can get here is 30c in the summer).. You have to give it a few good dabs before you make progress..

Changed to the DS2500s, much better in terms of cold braking and also they seem to handle the heat better.

On a side note, the Red Stuff, when taken off the caliper, on 1 side, the friction material just broke off (half of it).. Never ever going EBC again..

Have been a fan of DS2500s ever since I gave up with Project Mu, and has been great on a range of cars incl but not limited to Mk5 GTi, E55 AMG, M3 (E36/E46).. Only managed to cause some smoke coming out from the GTi though after a spirited run hahaha

Oh and having done all those mods to the brakes, the pedal is rock solid and the feel is great. Inspires confidence and braking power is much improved especially with the grooved disks.. I know there's pros and cons with these disks as some say they tend to eat into the pad much quicker but yet again, I don't see much a problem as long as you are not constantly doing hard braking... No idea but honestly, the difference is probably quite small..

Do have plans to further upgrade the brakes ie a new set incl calipers and disks though, but that's after the Supersprint manifold (being shipped as we speak) and cams..

 

[mjsmke]

Punto probably had solid discs, you'll probably pay double at least for 1.4 front discs.

I didnt think of that. It'l still be cheaper than paying the dealer to supply and fit them though.

 

[306maxi]

I didnt think of that. It'l still be cheaper than paying the dealer to supply and fit them though.

Definitely. I had a flyer through from Fiat today offering brake checks and services and so on. Brake change for the 500 1.2 was something like £120 or £145...... well it only cost me about £50 for the parts......

 

[Kay500]

Definitely. I had a flyer through from Fiat today offering brake checks and services and so on. Brake change for the 500 1.2 was something like £120 or £145...... well it only cost me about £50 for the parts......

I noticed that when I went into the dealership after they quoted me on my rear pads for my car. They wants around £150 just to replace the rear pads..

With regards to brakes, when my fronts wear out I'd like to get these
http://www.mtecbrakes.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=15181

My boyfriend had these on his mini and they looked quite smart.

 

[loveshandbags]

Many thanks for all the postings. This topic is a bit a ‘pet’ area for me because of an incident in 1999 in a MX5. Going home around 11.30pm on a Friday night after a ‘corporate’ function - a guy with some ‘bird he had picked up’ pulled out from a side road in front on me. No-one hurt, some car damage and the guy I ‘hit’ was on ‘e’ tablets. Police eventually arrived and because I was in a ‘flash’ sports car they presumed I was speeding and started measuring skid marks, etc. Anyone it got resolved with me having to ‘override’ the insurance taking it to court to prove my ‘innocence’.

The type of reckoner used by Engineers on stopping distances would be along these lines...
http://www.csgnetwork.com/stopdistcalc.html

When I went looking for the technical specs on 500 for stopping distances they were all TBA but I did find the following…
Braking, 30-0mph 29ft. 60-0mph: 115ft

Spending mega money on a 4 Pot Brembo or even a 6 pot Tarrox wouldn’t reduce the stopping distance by much. For higher speeds the stopping distance is more pronounced but at 60mph only a 8ft reduction can be got - a MINI upgrade…

Brembos reduced 60-to-0-mph stopping distance 8 ft, to just 115.

One of the benefits of cross drilling is to keep the heat down on pads (bigger discs will also have the same effect). The EBC Reds that Jeffreyli86 used are not recommended for the 500 and are used on ‘muscle’ cars. Having grooves on discs might be beneficial to stop the ‘glazing’ effect that the rear pads on my 1.4 have suffered. But it is important that these discs are installed with the grooves ‘starting in the right direction’ unless they're Brembos.

The Ferodo 2500 that Jeffreyli86 bought are supposedly the best but at £125 they are expensive & are probably worth it. Guys in the know reckon that Mintex are just as good (they aren’t really) and are half the price. I’m not too sure if these are the ‘right grade’ 1144 since the mintex web site is not listing the 500.

One of the benefits of having decent pads like e.g. the Green EDC is that there is less dust. My current wheels are always caked in fine dust from the OEM pads.

Changing the brake fluid to a decent 5.1 is beneficial along with braided hoses. Mintex apparently do an excellent one that is half the price of the expensive Castrol SRF.

And for those who don't mind getting their 'hands dirty'...

 

[306maxi]

Tbh I wouldn't bothere with SRF unless you're a very spirited driver or go down a lot of very steep hills. I bought some Castrol React Performance fluid for when the 500's brake fluid got done, it's got a dry boiling point 15 degrees higher than the standard Castrol stuff and a wet boiling point 20 degrees higher. Tbh the standard one would have been fine, but for an extra pound or something...... I doubt you'll boil anything but the oldest most water filled fluid in a 500 with an emergency stop from 80 mph.

As for changing pads and discs, do you really need any extra braking on a 500? I mean my 500 stops well enough to make the back end feel light, brake it any better and I wouldn't be surpised if the front end stops and the back continues on.......

If you want to see a car with poor brakes then try our Subaru, it's got brand new discs and pads all round and new fluid and you just get that feeling that it's going to keep on going. I did think there was a problem but after talking to a few people on forums that's just the way they are. I'd love to put some Brembo's on and it'd stop well, but I don't fancy putting 17" wheels on an early 90's car as it'll look silly so I may put some fixed 4 pot Subaru calipers on the front and some fixed 2 pot calipers on the back. Bonus is that they should fit under some of the 15" speedlines I've got or the standard wheels with some spacers.

But anyway, getting back on topic, the best upgrade you can do to your brakes is to have decent tyres on. You can put some nice 6 pot Brembo's on as below, but if the tyres have no grip then it's going to do sod all. Don't even get me started on braking in the winter with summer tyres

 

[pearce_jj]

FWIW I concur with the above - if the brakes are strong enough to lock the wheels then stopping distance won't be improved with better brakes (since the limitation in friction is elsewhere, namely the tyres).

I can't help but think that if drilled discs really helped (for normal road use) then they'd be standard everywhere (EU requirement even), since safety and performance together create a strong marketting message for what seems to be minimal cash. I mean, Citroen for example are happy to put £1000 worth of tyres on their people carriers, but still have ordinary brakes.

 

[bgunn]

The difference bigger brakes (with thicker discs) give is greater heat capacity and dissipation ability, thus being able to cope with repeated hard brake application. I.e. on a track where you are working the brakes very hard, where you don't want them to fade.

As said, for most cars (there are a few notable exceptions), standard brakes are easily enough for the one 'panic' braking episode you're likely to have in any particular time. The 500 isn't a particularly heavy car, and the brakes are pretty adequate, I certainly don't feel as though I'm lacking in confidence with the brakes on my TA, and they're only solid discs with drums at the rear.

 

[306maxi]

FWIW I concur with the above - if the brakes are strong enough to lock the wheels then stopping distance won't be improved with better brakes (since the limitation in friction is elsewhere, namely the tyres).

I can't help but think that if drilled discs really helped (for normal road use) then they'd be standard everywhere (EU requirement even), since safety and performance together create a strong marketting message for what seems to be minimal cash. I mean, Citroen for example are happy to put £1000 worth of tyres on their people carriers, but still have ordinary brakes.

Drilled discs are definitely not helpful for road use, the idea is that when braking hard the gases can form a boundary layer and stop the pads from touching the discs or reduce the braking force. This simply won't happen to most people on the road

Here is something you might find interesting, brakes on an F1 car and what seems to happen more often than you want to hear to drilled rotors on a road car.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=17801973&postcount=6

I suspect the quality of the discs has a lot to do with it, personally though if I needed more braking power I'd just fit bigger discs and better calipers or both as I plan to do on the Subaru. Slotted rotors wouldn't be a bad idea as they don't create weak points on the rotor.....

 

[bgunn]

I suspect the quality of the discs has a lot to do with it,

Definitely in terms of ability to cope with heat and resistance to warping.

 

[ahmett]

I agree with maxi the brakes are fine! The only thing that let me down slowing down with the 500 was a lack of grip due to Greek Marble roads. Not the fault of the brakes. So on a good road surface with good tires the Fiat 500 stops really well in my opinion with the standard anchors.