Technical What is the Turbocharger on the 1.4?

[dtsirlis]

Hi everybody and congratulations on the great forum. I am thinking about buying the new Bravo.

I have been doing some research but cant seem to find the answer to my question. What make is the Turbocharger on the 1.4 version? Is it made in house by Fiat or is brought in by Garrett or similar?

Also, I read that the 1.9 TTiD version of the 2008' Saab 9-3 is using a Fiat engine with twin turbos on it. The same question goes to that. Are they Fiat made?

Thanks very much and I apologize if this information is on another thread as I have already searched but did not find the appropriate answer.

Cheers!

 

[Hellcat]

I'd imagine they're garrett - however why the big interest in the turbo's themselves? There is a lot more to the car than a spinning fan in a metal housing.

 

[dtsirlis]

From your response I will assume your exposure to turbocharged automobiles is close to minimal. The make of the turbo plays an essential role. Lifespan is the most crucial variable. A blown turbo can cost anywhere from 200-400 USD plus labor.

So yes, I will agree with you that there are more things to car than "a spinning fan in a metal housing" as you put it, but in my case I want to know where I will drop 17kEuro and what to expect.

Cheers again!

 

[D4nny8oy]

If you want to get geeky, it's an IHI RFH3.

 

[oneoneeight]

Hi everybody and congratulations on the great forum. I am thinking about buying the new Bravo.

I have been doing some research but cant seem to find the answer to my question. What make is the Turbocharger on the 1.4 version? Is it made in house by Fiat or is brought in by Garrett or similar?

Also, I read that the 1.9 TTiD version of the 2008' Saab 9-3 is using a Fiat engine with twin turbos on it. The same question goes to that. Are they Fiat made?

Thanks very much and I apologize if this information is on another thread as I have already searched but did not find the appropriate answer.

Cheers!

IHI RHF-3

You might be able to swap to a IHI RHF-4 or 5, Garrett equivalent.

 

[dtsirlis]

Thanks for your replies! So I assume the Saab will have IHI turbo's on it too?

 

[doz smith]

i dont think the saab is twin turbos,
why are they not using vairable vane? toyota used to use this sort of tech on the mr2 didnt they?

 

[Hellcat]

From your response I will assume your exposure to turbocharged automobiles is close to minimal. The make of the turbo plays an essential role. Lifespan is the most crucial variable. A blown turbo can cost anywhere from 200-400 USD plus labor.

So yes, I will agree with you that there are more things to car than "a spinning fan in a metal housing" as you put it, but in my case I want to know where I will drop 17kEuro and what to expect.

Cheers again!

When you assume...

1989 Tipo 1.9TD DGT
1993 Tipo 1.9TD SX
1999 Marea 1.9 JTD
1999 Marea 2.4 JTD
2007 Bravo mJET

So I've had plenty of exposure to turbocharged diesel cars, just know how to treat them right so no popped turbos. As for variable vanes - Hasn't Fiat been using them since the Mk2 Brava/o?

 

[doz smith]

When you assume...

1989 Tipo 1.9TD DGT
1993 Tipo 1.9TD SX
1999 Marea 1.9 JTD
1999 Marea 2.4 JTD
2007 Bravo mJET

So I've had plenty of exposure to turbocharged diesel cars, just know how to treat them right so no popped turbos. As for variable vanes - Hasn't Fiat been using them since the Mk2 Brava/o?

Sorry i did mean why were saab using two impellers rather than a VV turbo.
I dont know when fiat started using it but i know alfa were using it in one form or another for around the last 7 years.

 

[The Beard]

O.k., I'll have a go at putting my interpretation on this, it won't be 100% but I'll give it a shot. In order to put enough air through a turbine (or propeller) the blades, or vanes, need to be set at a coarse pitch. In other words, as close to 45 degrees as it's possible to get. If the blades are set at more than 45 degrees, because the turbine is in a chamber, there wouldn't be enough volume to put the air through. Think about fitting a 1/2 inch hose pipe to a fire hydrant. You can put as much water as you like through the hydrant, it's the diameter of the hose that's the limiting factor. If you fit a big turbo with coarse-set vanes it can provide a terrific level of boost but needs a large volume of exhaust gasses to make it turn, so no boost below, say, 3-3500 revs. 24 years ago I had as a firm's car a Lancia Y10 Turbo. 1050 cc of FIAT carburettored motor with a big turbo. Slower than the 127 its engine came from off-boost, but, could see off XR3i s when it came on boost. I once fended off an Alfa GTV6 2.5 up to 110 on the M62 in it. Talk about all or nothing. You had to be a REAL enthusiast to shell out your own money on one. If you fit a small turbo with fine-pitch blades, voila, boost at low revs, but not much of it. Fit a medium sized turbo with blades that vary their pitch, from fine to coarse as the revs rise and you have a great compromise, boost from, say, 1800 revs all the way to the red-line. Very similar to the principal of the variable pitch propeller on WW2 fighter aircraft. The turbine is able to rotate at a constant speed but varying the angle of its blades to the airflow increases the amount of thrust. That type of turbo on my Panda MJT suits me fine and even on a GP or Bravo it would be good, but having used an Alfa 159 JTDm for a few days showed me where the extra power would have been useful as although the performance was quite good, if I'd forked out 20K + on one, I guess I wouldn't be too keen on being out-performed by a Bravo costing 25-30% less. The twin turbo installation gives more power and torque all the way through the rev range.

 

[D4nny8oy]

Wikipedia to the rescue!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_geometry_turbocharger

As the article says- variable vane turbo's aren't commonly used in mass-produced petrol vehicles for numerous reasons (including higher temps and the cost of the materials required), though it states that the technology is evolving so eventually it will be a viable choice.

Fiat are yet to release any detailed specs to the Techs regarding the twin-turbo JTD, though as the other versions use Garrett turbo's (albeit variable-vane) I'd have thought that would continue.

 

[Hellcat]

The turbine is able to rotate at a constant speed but varying the angle of its blades to the airflow increases the amount of thrust. That type of turbo on my Panda MJT suits me fine and even on a GP or Bravo it would be good, but having used an Alfa 159 JTDm for a few days showed me where the extra power would have been useful as although the performance was quite good, if I'd forked out 20K + on one, I guess I wouldn't be too keen on being out-performed by a Bravo costing 25-30% less. The twin turbo installation gives more power and torque all the way through the rev range.

The 1.9 Alfa 159JTDm has the same power as a Bravo 1.9 mJET which is the same as an Alfa GT 1.9JTDm. And given Bravo is lighter it will out-perform it's Alfa cousin.

 

[The Sultan]

one i looked at said FPT on it

ie fiat power trains

does this not suggest they are using an in house turbo for the 1.4 not garrett

http://www.fptpowertrain.com/eng/home.htm

check out the photo archives on here for some highly detailed pics of many fiat engines including the tst alfa engine also used in the saab in the near future

 

[santa]

If you look at the high-resolution pictures of the twin-turbo 1,9 MJET, you can see "BorgWarner" written on one of the turbochargers, so I think we can at least conclude they use BorgWarner turbos for the twin-turbo.

Link to high-resolution picture: http://www.fptpowertrain.com/eng/img_engines/1900_JTD_tt_2w.jpg

As for the 1,4 TJET I have no idea (but i've read they use IHI turbos).
If you look at this picture of the 1,4 TJET (http://www.fptpowertrain.com/eng/img_engines/T-JET_3_walta.jpg) you can indeed see that it's a IHI turbo.

 

[Hellcat]

Bi-turbo surely... they're not the same size so are not twins?

 

[The Sultan]

Bi-turbo surely... they're not the same size so are not twins?

quite right

all the engines i have seen in the metal have had fpt turbos

but all the pictures are ihi

so maybe they use both

for the 1.4 anyway

 

[oneoneeight]

I've read that the T-Jet runs 2.1bar of boost. Is this possible???

 

[D4nny8oy]

I've read that the T-Jet runs 2.1bar of boost. Is this possible???

I'd be very surprised if they do. Most manufacturers run about 1bar max on standard turbo'd motors for reliability due to the stresses involved. 2bar (on a 1.4) with enough fuelling should be in the realms of 200+bhp, so if the T-jet needs that to reach 150bhp there's something wrong!

 

[The Sultan]

well i had a look through some course data but couldnt find what the maximum boost pressure is

but it says the turbo is an IHI VL36

 

[oneoneeight]

In the latest issue of TOP GEAR, it says the Grande Punto Abarth runs up to 2.6 bar of boost on SPORT MODE. 2.1 bar off sport mode.