General What did you do to your vintage spider today?

[124BC1]

Would like to know more about the process since I need to do the exact same thing...was it hard to get the middle carrier pillow bearing off? Did you get a kit with the u joints, pillow center bearing, and the rubber one behind the Trans?, I already have new u joints and the rubber one behind the Trans but they are old NOS parts so I wouldn't rule out just getting a new kit...your making great progress on your spider!

Your NOS u/joints, if dry stored in the original packaging, are likely fine to use.
The rubber coupling behind the transmission is probably fine to use also providing there are no signs of cracking or separation between the metal bolt tubes and their surrounding rubber - be aware that modern replacement parts may not be as good or last as long as original NOS parts.

Don't worry about failure of this rubber coupling, the front sliding section of the driveshaft has an extension piece that passes through the rubber coupling and locates positively on a small bearing ring on the end of the transmission output shaft, (at least it does on manual transmission cars, (idk about automatics, as I believe your car is?), so it can't drop down and hit the road, as I explained in an earlier post.

But do check out and replace if necessary, the d/shaft centre bearing and it's rubber mounting and also the transmission rear rubber mounting/support.
It might be no harm to consider also replacing the engine rubber mountings also if the car has been sitting for a long time (I think you said 12 years).

 

[124BC1]

Thank you!

You're welcome!

 

[Slotman]

Yes! I'm a believer in nos parts when ever possible as opposed to all the cheap replacements out there today..the new fuel pump I have a question about replacing in another thread I scored on ebay 5 years ago, it says made In Italy and seems perfect when tested so on it will go...

 

[smahaley]

View attachment 463067

@smahaley
I don't want to cause you unnecessary worry but before you start assembling the driveshaft, I feel I should restate the importance of having made alignment marks on the u/j yoke and it's orientation where it attaches to the front part of the d/shaft as shown by the red arrows. This is very important as if these parts (which are splined together) are not refitted in their original positions relative to each other, then the balance of the d/shaft may then
be 'off' i.e the balance weight (arrowed in yellow) may now be in the wrong location.

I usually wouldn't rely on paint to indicate the correct orientation of parts, paint/white-out (Tippex)/ Sharpie etc. can be accidently removed in the cleaning process or when repainting. I'm 'old school' and rely on using a centre (dot) punch to mark original relative position of parts. Some might disagree with this practice - I am aware of the need to avoid causing 'stress-raisers' on critical/highly stressed parts.

Hmmmmmm... I *am* starting to worry - but I've been out of commission with a herniated disc (oh joy) and haven't been out in the garage for some time. I *believe* that I marked all parts sufficiently, but will go out to do a line-up and see if things look like they did in my original pre-disassembly photos. Thanks for your guidance!

 

[smahaley]

A couple of other little bits of advice re. u/joints.

I don't see any sign of this in your pics of the new u/joints you intend to use but just in case they are the type that has a built-in grease fitting (often fitted with a blanking plug - see pic below) please ensure that the u/j cross, when fitted, still allows for access with a grease gun. (but I suspect your u/j's are the non greaseable type).

View attachment 463068

Here's a nice pic of a u/joint that shows the name of the individual parts :-

View attachment 463070


Re- circlips/snap rings used to retain the u/j cups in place.

There are variations in the type of snap rings used.
However, some are stamped from sheet material. If you carefully examine the edges of this type you'll notice that there is a rounded edge and a sharp edge - it's important that the sharp edge is always fitted uppermost, i.e. pressing against the groove in which it locates. This advice applies not only to d/shaft u/joint clips but also to piston pin (gudgeon pin/ wrist pin) clips and the clips used in Fiat transmissions - get it wrong and you may find the clip pops off in service (I've seen this happen on lots of Fiat manual gearboxes, after they've been 'worked on'...).

After fitting the new u/joints, I'd recommend hitting each u/j yoke with a mallet (soft-face hammer) in the vicinity of each cup to ensure each cup is now pressing against it's securing clip and also to centralise the cross between the eyes of the yoke. The u/joint should now pivot freely, if not hit it again. If it's not free, it can cause a vibration when refitted on the car.

Thanks for the hint about the orientation of the clips: I have not even unboxed the new u-joints yet to see if they have grease fittings. For further context - it's been about 40 years since I last broke things down to this level (engine, trans, suspensions, etc.) so I am likely to make mistakes...

 

[Slotman]

Hmmmmmm... I *am* starting to worry - but I've been out of commission with a herniated disc (oh joy) and haven't been out in the garage for some time. I *believe* that I marked all parts sufficiently, but will go out to do a line-up and see if things look like they did in my original pre-disassembly photos. Thanks for your guidance!

Please keep us updated when you get back outside...hope you feel better soon! I have the same condition in my lower spine and some times it takes a good while to settle down when you make a disc angry! In my case I get yelled at by my wife also for over doing it, I'm a firm believer in the lyrics to that one song tom petty sings where he says " I don't know, but I been told, if you never slow down, you never grow old" ...

 

[Slotman]

That's some great advice from 124bc1 ! Little unknown things to some of us like turning the clips the wrong way are a big deal !

 

[Twink80]

Yes! I'm a believer in nos parts when ever possible as opposed to all the cheap replacements out there today..the new fuel pump I have a question about replacing in another thread I scored on ebay 5 years ago, it says made In Italy and seems perfect when tested so on it will go...

Im not so sure, rubber can age harden plus how do you know how the parts have been looked after all these years? I went for new repro from Ricambi, havent driven the car yet so jury is out. Spiderpoint also do quality repro. In many instances OE are not available. I also keep all the okd parts just in case!

 

[Slotman]

I hear you! In this case I've cycled the pump by hand quite a few times and it seems good...I'm going to give it a try and if it doesn't work out changing it next time will take half the time...I know parts even though new, like master cylinders, fuel pumps, wheel cylinders have a shelf life sometimes..

 

[Twink80]

I hear you! In this case I've cycled the pump by hand quite a few times and it seems good...I'm going to give it a try and if it doesn't work out changing it next time will take half the time...I know parts even though new, like master cylinders, fuel pumps, wheel cylinders have a shelf life sometimes..

The reality with old cars is you use what you can get hold of!!
Most things are serviceable and Fiat were pretty good at parts sharing across other models. Brake system parts you can usually get seal kits etc and there is always Ebay. Its more tricky in the UK as Spiders are pretty rare here. Is Bruces Autoparts still going in the US?

 

[Slotman]

If Bruce's auto parts is a parts recycler it appears it is!

 

[Twink80]

Yes! I'm a believer in nos parts when ever possible as opposed to all the cheap replacements out there today..the new fuel pump I have a question about replacing in another thread I scored on ebay 5 years ago, it says made In Italy and seems perfect when tested so on it will go...

FYI there was s an Abarth version of the mechanical fuel pump which has a higher flow rate. Probably like Rockin Horse Poo these days! I bought one about 10 years ago to supply twin 40 IDF’s. Also related to the electric fuel pump thread, when tested on the dyno an electric fuel pump was over supplying the carbs so I refitted the mech pump and all was fine! The engine is 150hp!

If Bruce's auto parts is a parts recycler it appears it is!View attachment 463112

sorry got the name wrong! Bruces Parts Bin!

 

[Twink80]

FYI there was s an Abarth version of the mechanical fuel pump which has a higher flow rate. Probably like Rockin Horse Poo these days! I bought one about 10 years ago to supply twin 40 IDF’s. Also related to the electric fuel pump thread, when tested on the dyno an electric fuel pump was over supplying the carbs so I refitted the mech pump and all was fine! The engine is 150hp!

sorry got the name wrong! Bruces Parts Bin!

Prices may no longer be current!!

 

[Twink80]

Prices may no longer be current!!

 

[Slotman]

It seems bruces parts bin sadly no longer exists, on Google there were other inquiries from people and I kept getting redirected to other sites...ive already upgraded to a 32/36 but in my dreams for someday are dual 40s...last new setup I saw with manifold and carbs here in usa were about $1600..

 

[Twink80]

It seems bruces parts bin sadly no longer exists, on Google there were other inquiries from people and I kept getting redirected to other sites...ive already upgraded to a 32/36 but in my dreams for someday are dual 40s...last new setup I saw with manifold and carbs here in usa were about $1600..

40 IDF’s that fit on a Twincam manifold are pretty rare. The new versions are produced for VW and the spindles are too long.
I think throttle bodies and Megasquirt are the future, especially with AI to populate the map. Unfortunately that is all way beyond my knowledge and ability!
I fitted a block mounted distributor and electronic ignition from a Lancia Beta but that means an offset manifold, which I found! I started doing my car in 2007!! I rebuilt the engine with some advice from Guy Croft, and converted it from the wheasey 80hp FI Cal spec to 150hp on standard parts bin parts! Stock cams, pistons, exhaust header (all Lancia) Abarth Inlet valves and GC valve port specs on a Lancia head. I saw an engine with less power and torque on ebay for £4k!! Would be a big challenge to find all those bits today!

 

[smahaley]

Please keep us updated when you get back outside...hope you feel better soon! I have the same condition in my lower spine and some times it takes a good while to settle down when you make a disc angry! In my case I get yelled at by my wife also for over doing it, I'm a firm believer in the lyrics to that one song tom petty sings where he says " I don't know, but I been told, if you never slow down, you never grow old" ...

Thank you sir: more things in common than just the love for the italian 124!

I’ll post some other questions back on my main project thread, but for this - I think I got it! My marks lined up, the new spiders are in and I triple checked my line up and torqued the pillow bearing to spec. Then I wrapped it all up and put the drive shaft in semi - weatherproof storage (aka under the shed roof attached to my “garage”).

@124BC1 I checked the clips closely by there was no difference in the treatment of the edges, so I think they’ll be fine. Onward…

 

[124BC1]

FYI there was s an Abarth version of the mechanical fuel pump which has a higher flow rate.

Imho, there is a lot of unjustified adoration/mystique surrounding Abarth 'tuning' parts - what they did was just standard engineering practices/modifications much the same as done by others who actually understand how engines and their constituent parts work and interact.

Higher flow rate (l/min) or higher output pressure (bar/psi)?

To increase l/min, either increase the diaphragm diameter and volume of pumping chamber or cycle (operate) the pump faster.
To increase delivery pressure, fit a stronger pumping spring under the diaphragm.
I used to modify fuel pumps... (and carbs - was Weber trained in my early years).

P.s. Many think they understand how a mechanical fuel pump works, e.g. that the lever operating the diaphragm makes the pressure - it doesn't.

Here's briefly how it actually works - the lever pulls down the diaphragm drawing fuel from the tank line via the inlet valve into the pumping chamber inside the pump body, then the spring under the diaphragm pushes up the diaphragm, closing the inlet valve, opening the outlet valve and pushes fuel out through the outlet pie to feed the carb. When the carb. float chamber is full, the float valve closes, this prevents further fuel from entering the carb, the pressure in the fuel line holds the pump diaphragm down against the pressure of the spring. There is a spring-loaded idling facility built into the pump operating lever so that it can continue to follow the lobe on it's operating shaft without operating the pump diaphragm. When the fuel levels drops in the carb., the float valve opens allowing the pump to resume pumping.

 

[124BC1]

I checked the clips closely by there was no difference in the treatment of the edges, so I think they’ll be fine. Onward…

Some types of clip seem to be ground flat on both sides (avoids the potential problem I described) plus they seem to fit more securely in square grooves.
(I've seen some u/joints that even used selectable different thicknesses of clip to adjust clearances, but not on Fiat's, so you're o.k.).

I'm not sure about how well the clip is fitting into it's groove at this point (red arrow) compared with the width of the loose clips on the bench - it might just be the angle of the shot? No harm to double-check before you store the shaft and possibly forget about it?

*Sorry to hear about your back issues but well done for getting the driveshaft back together while suffering.
(am similarly afflicted myself, want to work but just can't at times).

 

[124BC1]

-----------------------------------------but in my dreams for someday are dual 40s...last new setup I saw with manifold and carbs here in usa were about $1600..

I think I expressed my views (ymmv) on fitting dual 40's in some earlier post - I don't think it's worth the effort/cost, only gave 10 bhp increase on the 124 BC Coupe (Euro spec engine) and could be troublesome for owners who couldn't retune the carbs (or find someone proficient at doing so!). Fiat dropped the dual 40's after 3 years and never fitted them again until the Ritmo/Strada was fitted with the t/cam engine (c. mid '80's?) with again the same customer complaints). By then, F.I. was taking over...

P.s. I know someone who has 2 original Fiat sets of 40's (Weber and the Solex equivalent), manifolds, including linkages and the very hard to find large 'turtleback' air filter housings - but he's not interested in selling as he has 2 x 1608cc t/cam engines he 'plans' to rebuild someday.

(I wouldn't mind, but he got these parts for free from a friend to whom I had previously given them for free also!)