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I see u still have the bit of welding to do!!
General Well, it's that time again! Rear trailing bearings
- Thread starter Oletimer
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General Well, it's that time again! Rear trailing bearings
WMF: The hole in the floor is to access the knackered bolt from the frame.
I'll have some pic's tomorrow of the same hole and chassis rewelded.
Then I can finish the brake pipes, cables, hubs, shoes and bleeding, hopefully I'll get a decent bit done after my other chores are completed. If it takes another couple of days it's no hardship, I've been doing ok with my old cliterous berlingo
can't wait to get me bug back tho
marty, check out the pic's later, ok.
When I'm done I'm going rerun all of the pic's cos I've found a picture editor that allows text, not 100% on how it works yet but maybe the whole saga might be useful to someone, perhaps even get it 'stickied' :yum:
George
I'll have some pic's tomorrow of the same hole and chassis rewelded.
Then I can finish the brake pipes, cables, hubs, shoes and bleeding, hopefully I'll get a decent bit done after my other chores are completed. If it takes another couple of days it's no hardship, I've been doing ok with my old cliterous berlingo
can't wait to get me bug back tho marty, check out the pic's later, ok.
When I'm done I'm going rerun all of the pic's cos I've found a picture editor that allows text, not 100% on how it works yet but maybe the whole saga might be useful to someone, perhaps even get it 'stickied' :yum:
George
...especially the bit about repairing the captive nut in the chassis rail. I think a few people might find that handy in future!
WMF: Yeah, that did have me scratching my head too. My brother has a very 'never mind moaning, let's get it done' attitude, so he soon had it sorted.
I'll do a text/picture 'how to' but I didn't get that many pic's cos when Dave's on fire you tend to keep out of the way.
A couple of pic's re: pre and post welding...
I'll do a text/picture 'how to' but I didn't get that many pic's cos when Dave's on fire you tend to keep out of the way.
A couple of pic's re: pre and post welding...
Attachments
Apologies for the lop sided pic's, I hadn't noticed when I uploaded. G
The pic's are out of order but basically:
Hole in floor directly over frame bolt location
Our kid, chiseling back the piece of steel that half covers the bolt - which isn't always welded in - as I found out when the bolt came out, I'll get a pic tomorrow
That round hole rewelded
I'll also do a pic of the method we used to fix it.
That poor welding on the side chassis is because the gas was running out. A new bottle of Argon and all was well.
The other pic's are: 1st attempt at getting at the bolt (the sliced side chassis)
That piece rewelded
The pic's are out of order but basically:
Hole in floor directly over frame bolt location
Our kid, chiseling back the piece of steel that half covers the bolt - which isn't always welded in - as I found out when the bolt came out, I'll get a pic tomorrow
That round hole rewelded
I'll also do a pic of the method we used to fix it.
That poor welding on the side chassis is because the gas was running out. A new bottle of Argon and all was well.
The other pic's are: 1st attempt at getting at the bolt (the sliced side chassis)
That piece rewelded
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A couple of pic's and an interesting chat with the Stealer...
Haven't been able to do anything constructive for a couple of days but I found time to entertain myself by phoning Fiat at Oldbury to check on prices for a few bits I need to finish the job off...
I'm making my own brake pipes but need to buy in a couple of flexible pipes for the ones I wrecked. So I thought I'd ask the Stealer for everything...
I thought I had a set of brake shoes, turns out I used them and only the old set was in the box on the shelf
I've decided to renew the wheel cylinders coz they've done their work.
So the shopping list is:
1: Set of brake shoes
2: 2x short pipes ('T' to flexi)
3: 2x short pipes (flexi to wheel cyl)
4: 2x Wheel cylinders
5: Fitting kit (Mine are old so the springs are very weak)
I also need new cables but had those in the man cave.
Stealer: so that's all you need mate?
Me: er, yeah, I reckon so...
Stealer: 'ang on...
After several minuits which seemed to drag on forever, during which he asked a few questions about vin numbers etc....
Stealer: ok, mate, your brake shoes are £166 a set, your rear brake pipes from the flexi to the wheel cylinder are £33 a piece, your wheel cylinders are £44 a piece, we'll have to order the fitting kit but it'll be about £55, that's all plus vat of course ....
after picking myself up I said 'leave it with mate I'll bell ya Monday'.
Stealer: Yeah, ok mate. Just tell 'em your reg number an it'll come up...
So I then did the obvious, bought it all off eBay. I can give it a service and fill the fuel tank with the savings.
These pic's show the old rustied bolt abd the new piece that I repaired it with (these are anchoring bolts for pipe cradles, courtesy my nephew)
Haven't been able to do anything constructive for a couple of days but I found time to entertain myself by phoning Fiat at Oldbury to check on prices for a few bits I need to finish the job off...
I'm making my own brake pipes but need to buy in a couple of flexible pipes for the ones I wrecked. So I thought I'd ask the Stealer for everything...
I thought I had a set of brake shoes, turns out I used them and only the old set was in the box on the shelf
I've decided to renew the wheel cylinders coz they've done their work.
So the shopping list is:
1: Set of brake shoes
2: 2x short pipes ('T' to flexi)
3: 2x short pipes (flexi to wheel cyl)
4: 2x Wheel cylinders
5: Fitting kit (Mine are old so the springs are very weak)
I also need new cables but had those in the man cave.
Stealer: so that's all you need mate?
Me: er, yeah, I reckon so...
Stealer: 'ang on...
After several minuits which seemed to drag on forever, during which he asked a few questions about vin numbers etc....
Stealer: ok, mate, your brake shoes are £166 a set, your rear brake pipes from the flexi to the wheel cylinder are £33 a piece, your wheel cylinders are £44 a piece, we'll have to order the fitting kit but it'll be about £55, that's all plus vat of course ....
after picking myself up I said 'leave it with mate I'll bell ya Monday'.
Stealer: Yeah, ok mate. Just tell 'em your reg number an it'll come up...
So I then did the obvious, bought it all off eBay. I can give it a service and fill the fuel tank with the savings.
These pic's show the old rustied bolt abd the new piece that I repaired it with (these are anchoring bolts for pipe cradles, courtesy my nephew)
Attachments
I did pretty much the same thing a few years ago. Fiat are taking the mick, especially with Multiplas being worth next to nothing these days. The only 'genuine' bits I bought were the rigid brake pipes that go on the arms; even those I bought through Shop4Parts and used the forum discount code. Everything else was Pagid, off eBay.
Sounds as though you're getting near to completion, anyway
For those rusted parts, have you tried recovering them using electrolysis? I've been messing around with it on my other car and have had some pretty good results.
Sounds as though you're getting near to completion, anyway
For those rusted parts, have you tried recovering them using electrolysis? I've been messing around with it on my other car and have had some pretty good results.
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WMF: Never gave it a thought mate, think I might have been bizzy with the hammer gun at full chat
How does that work then?
G
How does that work then?
G
Well, it's back on it's feet again, a little unsteady at first but it soon got the hang of it..... surprising how quick they learn init
We were soon romping along and I don't mind sayin, it felt good to have it back.
Reasons why it's taken so bloody long are genuine: too many other vehicles to hand, holidays, work, weather and a bit of good slice of old fashioned laziness. There's honesty for you.
The list of parts used is longer than anticipated, but for those wanting to know:
1/ 1 pair Radius Bearings.
2. 4 Grease nipples
3, 1 pair new hubs
4, 1 set new brake shoes
5, 1 new brake adjuster
6, 1 set new brake springs
7, 1 pair new brake wheel cylinders
8, 1 litre Dot4 brake fluid
9, 1 Roll of Cuprinol brake pipe (25m x 3/16)
10, 1 bag of pipe connectors (comes in 50 bag - I only wanted 10)
11, 1 pair new flexible brake pipes
12, 1 pair new handbrake cables
13, 1 front new handbrake cable
14, 1 pr new road springs (in house)
15, 1 pr new shock absorbers (in house)
16, 1 set (4) new exhaust hanging rubbers
I estimate costs to be about £380 because some gear was already to hand but most purchased as needed.
Tools used: 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 16, 17 and 32mm sockets and combo spanners. A good pair of pliers, Duck oil, (WD40 or similar will do) Copper/hide, Hammer and chisel, good flat screwdriver, light, roller jack and stands, wheel chocks, work gloves, rags, etc.
Also handy to have: gas gun, small pry bar, adjustable pliers and a mate.
For anyone contemplating renewing their radius arm bearings:
Once you get down to it, it's not a difficult job. I suffered because of the amount of rust that had accumulated, making some fittings impossible to shift, this is why I didn't remove the torsion bar. Some people have had a rough time replacing the bearings, others have had an easier task, mine were not as bad as I thought. Doing the job again, I would prefer working inside, it would have shortened the job a lot.
Estimating how long it should take... on a mission probably 2 days,
mine took a bit longer, about 3 months!
I'll go through my pictures and see if I can do a 'how to' but I believe that one already exists.
If anyone has any questions, etc, don't be afraid to shout.
All the best.
George
We were soon romping along and I don't mind sayin, it felt good to have it back.
Reasons why it's taken so bloody long are genuine: too many other vehicles to hand, holidays, work, weather and a bit of good slice of old fashioned laziness. There's honesty for you.
The list of parts used is longer than anticipated, but for those wanting to know:
1/ 1 pair Radius Bearings.
2. 4 Grease nipples
3, 1 pair new hubs
4, 1 set new brake shoes
5, 1 new brake adjuster
6, 1 set new brake springs
7, 1 pair new brake wheel cylinders
8, 1 litre Dot4 brake fluid
9, 1 Roll of Cuprinol brake pipe (25m x 3/16)
10, 1 bag of pipe connectors (comes in 50 bag - I only wanted 10)
11, 1 pair new flexible brake pipes
12, 1 pair new handbrake cables
13, 1 front new handbrake cable
14, 1 pr new road springs (in house)
15, 1 pr new shock absorbers (in house)
16, 1 set (4) new exhaust hanging rubbers
I estimate costs to be about £380 because some gear was already to hand but most purchased as needed.
Tools used: 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 16, 17 and 32mm sockets and combo spanners. A good pair of pliers, Duck oil, (WD40 or similar will do) Copper/hide, Hammer and chisel, good flat screwdriver, light, roller jack and stands, wheel chocks, work gloves, rags, etc.
Also handy to have: gas gun, small pry bar, adjustable pliers and a mate.
For anyone contemplating renewing their radius arm bearings:
Once you get down to it, it's not a difficult job. I suffered because of the amount of rust that had accumulated, making some fittings impossible to shift, this is why I didn't remove the torsion bar. Some people have had a rough time replacing the bearings, others have had an easier task, mine were not as bad as I thought. Doing the job again, I would prefer working inside, it would have shortened the job a lot.
Estimating how long it should take... on a mission probably 2 days,
mine took a bit longer, about 3 months!
I'll go through my pictures and see if I can do a 'how to' but I believe that one already exists.
If anyone has any questions, etc, don't be afraid to shout.
All the best.
George
A good job jobbed !
My nsr definitely needs doing. Has anyone had it done by a garage and if so, what was the cost ?
My nsr definitely needs doing. Has anyone had it done by a garage and if so, what was the cost ?
You might find that to be an expensive exercise. I did some quotes before doing mine - just for the crack.
To do do both sides (it's the only way to do it) I was quoted between £600 - £1000 plus parts.
I told them I had all the parts but they like to add things that they 'needed' and believe me, their prices will knock your breath away.
Where are you? If you're not far away I can come to give you a hand to sort it out - it'll cost you a few gallons of tea tho
All the best
George
To do do both sides (it's the only way to do it) I was quoted between £600 - £1000 plus parts.
I told them I had all the parts but they like to add things that they 'needed' and believe me, their prices will knock your breath away.
Where are you? If you're not far away I can come to give you a hand to sort it out - it'll cost you a few gallons of tea tho
All the best
George
Thanks George, I'd assumed that it wouldn't be a cheap fix but at those prices it'll cost double the cars value. My MOT is in April so will see if Glopsy gets to that date without anything major breaking. Also a very kind offer of help, it's appreciated but sadly working long hours at the moment along with a young family means spare tinkering time is almost non existent sadly
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Just out of interest George, where did you get the bearing kit from? I see there are numerous ones online and wondered if there was a particular one to go for or indeed avoid ? Having thought about mine I'm thinking about putting it through the MOT and then taking off the road to sort it all out properly over a year. Will buy a cheap banger to tide me over till she's done.
Another option might be to buy an entire rear sub frame assembly, get that all cleaned up and rebuilt, then swap it with the existing one. If you've got a shed or conservatory you could even do that in comparative comfort over the winter (it's not that big an assembly, especially once it's taken apart) then fit it early spring in time for the MOT. Swapping the subframe is not that big a job - I could pop up to give you a hand if you want.
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That's a good idea and I'll have a look to see what's about.
In answer to your other question, I bought a Birth swing arm bearing kit. Quality seemed fine. Some of their stuff is a mixed bag so that isn't a blanket recommendation for the brand. The kit included new bolts from what I can remember, which is important if you end up having to slice the heads of the existing bolts to get them out. In any event, I'd always replace those bolts as they're what holds the back wheels on the car.
If you do end up buying a s/h subframe complete, things to look out for:
1. The ABS sensor cables have the same ends as the ones you've already got on the car. There are two types of connectors - one round and one square-ish. They're located under the carpet, just inboard of the hard plastic sill trims inside the rear passenger doors, one on each side. The sensors and cables are one unit and cannot be separated. Getting the sensor head out of the rear hubs is a PITA and almost always results in breaking it. They are quite expensive to buy new.
2. Make sure you've got the same brake type as the current set up (i.e. discs or drums). That said, if you've currently got discs replacing them with drums is entirely feasible if you want, as they are interchangeable.
3. Try and get a subframe with the two rigid brake lines intact. Breakers often just cut through them, or twist the ends of at the forward connectors. Those two brake lines aren't very cheap from what I remember and I think they may be getting harder to find, new.
4. Make sure the two 'towers' that mount the top end of the dampers are intact and relatively rust free. Same comment goes for the two 'cones' on the subframe that locate the tops of the springs.
5. Check if the handbrake cables are included, though that's not so critical as good quality replacements are readily available and don't cost much in the overall scheme of things.
If you do end up buying a s/h subframe complete, things to look out for:
1. The ABS sensor cables have the same ends as the ones you've already got on the car. There are two types of connectors - one round and one square-ish. They're located under the carpet, just inboard of the hard plastic sill trims inside the rear passenger doors, one on each side. The sensors and cables are one unit and cannot be separated. Getting the sensor head out of the rear hubs is a PITA and almost always results in breaking it. They are quite expensive to buy new.
2. Make sure you've got the same brake type as the current set up (i.e. discs or drums). That said, if you've currently got discs replacing them with drums is entirely feasible if you want, as they are interchangeable.
3. Try and get a subframe with the two rigid brake lines intact. Breakers often just cut through them, or twist the ends of at the forward connectors. Those two brake lines aren't very cheap from what I remember and I think they may be getting harder to find, new.
4. Make sure the two 'towers' that mount the top end of the dampers are intact and relatively rust free. Same comment goes for the two 'cones' on the subframe that locate the tops of the springs.
5. Check if the handbrake cables are included, though that's not so critical as good quality replacements are readily available and don't cost much in the overall scheme of things.
MultipleMultis
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Hello peeps
Going to have to have a go at my passenger side one as wheel touching liner.
I bought Meyle part of ebay - 2 year warranty - German - punt. Just arrived looks OK no name on bearing
Car is 2010 and only 53k miles so a bit disappointed. Will look if water helped it fail.
Suspect it is a pot hole that did for her.
I am going to try and do without taking all suspension off as per Marty advice.
1. penetrating oil (gas/heat if I can locate some)
Keep at the nut until it warms up a bit outside.
Going to have to have a go at my passenger side one as wheel touching liner.
I bought Meyle part of ebay - 2 year warranty - German - punt. Just arrived looks OK no name on bearing
Car is 2010 and only 53k miles so a bit disappointed. Will look if water helped it fail.
Suspect it is a pot hole that did for her.
I am going to try and do without taking all suspension off as per Marty advice.
1. penetrating oil (gas/heat if I can locate some)
Keep at the nut until it warms up a bit outside.
MultipleMultis
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https://autopassion.net/forums/204207-tuto-changement-axe-et-roulements-de-train-arriere/
Found a French site with good pictures of the repair without removing subframe.
Step by step. Browser will translate it on my PC.
Just releases the bolt, no spring or shocker unbolting.
I will try this method and report back.
Reading other threads on there ... they agree with WMF about the water.
Suggest o rings and sealant on the bolting and or silicone sealant.
Found a French site with good pictures of the repair without removing subframe.
Step by step. Browser will translate it on my PC.
Just releases the bolt, no spring or shocker unbolting.
I will try this method and report back.
Reading other threads on there ... they agree with WMF about the water.
Suggest o rings and sealant on the bolting and or silicone sealant.
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You’ll be grand.
Just keep an eye on the brake hose that you don’t put too much strain on it.
Pure lunacy taking down the subframe unless you intend to do work on that aswell.
Marty.
Just keep an eye on the brake hose that you don’t put too much strain on it.
Pure lunacy taking down the subframe unless you intend to do work on that aswell.
Marty.
MultipleMultis
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Agreed that if subframe was in bad rusty state or bushes to body looked shot, I would need take whole thing off.
Planning to give frame some love to limit future rusting anyway.
Steel rods/drifts to knock things out the right diameter next in planning.
Planning to give frame some love to limit future rusting anyway.
Steel rods/drifts to knock things out the right diameter next in planning.
