General Valves' play

[Enzo]

Hello boys...can anyone help me to adjust the valves' play of my 1.0fire engine[?] I'd like to be driven step by step in this operation, because I don't want to break anything on the distribution... thank you for the advices[8D]!

 

[John H]

Why do you want to adjust - are they out of limits for gap?

I've never had to do them: they've been near enough when checked

0.35 to 0.45mm exhaust
0.25 to 0.35mm inlet

AFAIK.


Regards


John H

 

[Enzo]

I can hear a little metallic noise from the top of the engine...I don't know if it's natural or the valves need to be adjusted[:0]!But I'd like to know if it's necessary to buy the disks or the fire engine doesn't need them!

P.S. FIAT recommends 0.30-0.40mm gaps for this unit (intake-exhaust respectively)

 

[John H]

It's probably worth measuring the gaps before worrying about adjusting.

 

[Enzo]

How to measure the gap[xx(][?]I know how to do it on elder engines, using distance spacers (rods & rocking arms type!), but is it the same on FIRE engine or do I need special toolsB)[?]

 

[John H]

To measure it's basically the same:
cover off the top of the engine, turn engine by hand or in gear and rock the car, measure the gap under the camshaft lobes (instead of the rocker).
Check when not being pressed in - easier than old engine, you can see what's happening.

Adjustment is replacing the shims between the cam and top of the valve with new ones of a different thickness.

AIUI

You do need a special tool to depress the valve while still being able to get at the shim.
Put a new one in of known thickness, measure the gap and decide what thickness new one to put in instead... you need to use a new one first because the old ones are a bit worn, and not necessarily the size they were when new.

 

[Enzo]

It seems to be not a quick operation...and then where can I find the right tool to compress the valves' springs?

P.S. you said you've never needed to adjust the play, but I forgot to tell you my engine has 120'000km (75'000miles)...do you think this mileage is enough to worry?And which kind of damage may occur if the play becomes too wide[?]

 

[John H]

I've not needed the tool... so I haven't looked for one.

If I get the chance I may search on-line later.
But I'd guess FIAT do one
Maybe people like Sykes-Pickavant (spelling??) or good tool manufacturers.

I've seen distances quoted of about 300'000 Km on these engines without problems - obviously they've had regular oil and filter changes, but I don't know what else has been done, apart from cambelts.

My CLX has 77'000 miles on it and is fine - it can make some little tapping noises briefly after revving it up a lot when it settles back to tick-over again, but that varies with the oil: it's better in the first few months after an oil and filter change, and they are done at 6 months or 6'000 miles anyway.
15W 40 oil. I tried thinner, but it didn't sound nice.

Regarding wear and gaps - there are two things changing:
valve seat recession
cam lobes and followers wearing

When these happen at the same sort of rate the gap stays the same.

If the seat wears faster the gaps close up and when there's insufficient clearance you burn the valve seat, because it doesn't close properly.

If the cam lobes and followers wear faster the gap increases: the valve seat is OK, but you loose a bit of power because the valve doesn't open as much as intended - reduced gas flow.

 

[Enzo]

Ok...thank you for all your advices...I bought the camshaft cover gasket because I noticed a little oil leak from it and I'll check the gaps as you told me (when the lobes are with the tip on the top and the valves are closed)

 

[John H]

Let us know what you find.

BTW if your Panda has a distributor driven off the end of the camshaft the "O" ring oil seal, where it locates in the cylinder head, can also leak: it looks just like a camshaft cover leak
It's a distributor off job to replace, so you loose the timing setting - unless you scribe a mark across the distributor and cylinder head where they both touch: line up the marks when putting it back together.
The ring was about 1 Euro (converting roughly) when I did one in the last year.

I did look to see if I could find a tool to help with shim removal - I could find them for Fords and Vauxhalls, but not FIAT.


Regards


John H

 

[Enzo]

The control has been done!The engine wasn't perfectly cold, because I used the car less than an hour before...anyway I found the following values for the play:

intake valves--> 0.30mm and all the values seemed to be the same
exhaust " --> 0.35mm, maybe there's a little seat recession, but I think it's still in of tolerances,isn't it[?]Or maybe the valves were still warm and their metal expanded-->closed gapB)!
I checked the cam lobes too, and no signs of wear were on them!

BTW what do you think about my engine?I'd like to run up to 150'000km and then drive the car to a garage to do a "serious" control with shims substitution if necessary[)]!

P.S. the camshaft cover gasket costed 3.50€, while the O-ring was mine for 4€€...[!]

 

[andydowds]

Enzo,
one thing I have found when checking the valves, is that the engine absolutely has to be cold (overnight is best) The small amount of expansion in the metal can make enough of a difference to srew up the readings.
Andy

 

[Enzo]

<blockquote id="quote"> face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by andydowds
Enzo,
one thing I have found when checking the valves, is that the engine absolutely has to be cold (overnight is best) The small amount of expansion in the metal can make enough of a difference to srew up the readings.
Andy
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I agree with you, but on the owner's manual of my new Ford Fusion there's written you can check the play atleast after half an hour you turned off[:0]!

 

[John H]

I don't know how much being a bit warm will affect the values - but they seem to be just on the lower limit.

I have read somewhere FIAT makes them just on the lower limit to keep the noise down so they sound sweet in the showroom

If you keep the oil and filters changed regularly I doubt if there's any reason to worry about the life expectancy of the engine.

The price of the camshaft gasket seems fair.
I think somebody's having a laugh with the price of the O ring B)

I'm glad it's all worked out OK though.



Regards

John H