Technical Tyre wear question

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

He was putting it onto the bushes/rubber seals in a gearbox after replacing them and also on the bolt holes. In hindsight he was probably being lazy by putting it on the bolt holes because another grease would have been better?

Hmm? I've been talking about red rubber grease specifically but, like antifreeze, you can be caught out by using colour alone as an identifier. I've seen a general multipurpose grease in America which was coloured red and looked very similar to the red rubber grease I have in my workshop. So, be careful and read the spec on the tin before buying/using.

I guess when you say he put this grease "on the bolt holes" he was using it to lubricate the bolt threads? If so a rubber grease wouldn't be my first choice. I'd assemble them dry or with a wee touch of blue thread locker - don't want that sort of thing coming loose. Maybe on rubber O ring seals? although I prefer silicon grease for this. Can't think why he'd be putting it on gearbox mounts either come to that. Maybe on some sort of rubber bushing part of the gear change linkage? Maybe?

 

[AnthonyH]

I've been trying to find the video, but alas its lost to me. Sometimes I watch Youtube while logged out and so its not there for me to easily find. I'd be better off asking you fellas what to do rather than follow youtube anyway lol

Also, I'm finding the Haynes manual less and less useful as time passes, its missing a lot of info.

 

[AnthonyH]

Anyway, I suppose I put red grease onto rubber bushes anywhere on the car, and it'll keep them alive longer, so I should get some of that.

I'll do a test of the old control arms, i'll stress them, and then put some red grease on and try again.

I just bought this grease. I'm definitely not collecting colours btw lol

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SILVERHOOK-SGPG80-Rubber-Grease-Red/dp/B015DTFOOE/

 

[vexorg]

I'm not suggesting he reuse them,

No, but can see AntH just greasing them up and sticking them back on

 

[AnthonyH]

I'm spending a few days in Nottingham for my sons birthday. I'll be checking in on my phone but no car work, i'm looking forward to a good ole fight getting the arms off when i get back!

 

[AnthonyH]

I'm going to have a go at getting the control arms off tomorrow, not sure how long i'll have, or what problems I may encounter, hmmm, we'll see how long this takes me.

I found the youtube video with the guy putting red grease onto the gearbox, he's a clutch replacement specialist. I was watching this because i think I have a tiny oil leak inside the gearbox of my GP, so at some point I'll have to change a clutch, not soon thankfully. I have some red grease of my own now, was about £11.

 

[AnthonyH]

The first control arm went on without any problem. The last time i tried to change some the previous mechanic had tightened the bolts to something stupid like 250nm, so it took my whole body weight and a breaker bar to crack them. The old arm looks shot, the hub end is split so its lost most of its grease, and the other rubber can be moved easily by hand.

The problem i have is with the rod end, i'd like to replace it but I just don't see how thats going to happen, the last lot i tried to change only came off when the subframe was off the car. Everything is so rusted. Anyone got ideas?

 

[bugsymike]

The first control arm went on without any problem. The last time i tried to change some the previous mechanic had tightened the bolts to something stupid like 250nm, so it took my whole body weight and a breaker bar to crack them. The old arm looks shot, the hub end is split so its lost most of its grease, and the other rubber can be moved easily by hand.

View attachment 451472

The problem i have is with the rod end, i'd like to replace it but I just don't see how thats going to happen, the last lot i tried to change only came off when the subframe was off the car. Everything is so rusted. Anyone got ideas?

View attachment 451473

If I have a really stuck track rod end thread.
1. as Jock mentioned, two big hammers , one held against the track rod and the other to firmly hit it several times after well oiling it has the affect of swelling the tube slightly and releasing it's grip on the threads, this also works well on exhaust sleeves.
Note, on the sleeve not the visible threaded part.
Another note is decent size hammers, not "toffee hammers"
2. I have two very large Stilson wrenches which grip really well and are so long you can exert a fair bit of force.

 

[AnthonyH]

If I have a really stuck track rod end thread.
1. as Jock mentioned, two big hammers , one held against the track rod and the other to firmly hit it several times after well oiling it has the affect of swelling the tube slightly and releasing it's grip on the threads, this also works well on exhaust sleeves.
Note, on the sleeve not the visible threaded part.
Another note is decent size hammers, not "toffee hammers"
2. I have two very large Stilson wrenches which grip really well and are so long you can exert a fair bit of force.

I'll give the two hammer technique a go tomorrow and give the vice grip I have a run out. Failing that I'll put the other control arm on so its driveable, and then buy some long stillson wrenches off ebay to give that a go. Its always new tools isn't it? I might have to raise the car a bit more too, there isn't much clearance under there at the moment, the tyres are barely off the ground.

 

[bugsymike]

I'll give the two hammer technique a go tomorrow and give the vice grip I have a run out. Failing that I'll put the other control arm on so its driveable, and then buy some long stillson wrenches off ebay to give that a go. Its always new tools isn't it? I might have to raise the car a bit more too, there isn't much clearance under there at the moment, the tyres are barely off the ground.

It does involve decent size hammers and a fair bit of upper body effort and a good swing, so a good working height is essential as long as safely supported on axle stands etc.

 

[rmjbn1]

Have you used heat (careful with brake hoses and other rubber parts) ? Is the lock nut free?

 

[AnthonyH]

This morning I was defeated by both the tie rod end on the nearside and the control arm on the offside. I haven't tried heat on the tie rod end yet and the lock nut is rock solid seized too. Not the end of the world, i'm kind of sanguine about it or is that phelgmatic...i'll have another go soon. I really have to buy more tools. Every job even the smallest seems to require more tools.

The control arm ball joint just wouldn't shift, i think I may have taken the other two bolts out early and that made the ball joint impossible to budge. Or maybe its the lack of a tool, in the video i posted just above the guy was using a kind of metal pitchfork and hammer to get the ball joint free. I need to watch that again and see what he did that made it look so easy! At 2 minutes 34s, he's just using a metal pin type tool and a big hammer. I might need a bigger hammer too

Can someone tell me where exactly that guy is hitting with the pin type tool, i reckon there must be a sweet spot?

 

[bugsymike]

This morning I was defeated by both the tie rod end on the nearside and the control arm on the offside. I haven't tried heat on the tie rod end yet and the lock nut is rock solid seized too. Not the end of the world, i'm kind of sanguine about it or is that phelgmatic...i'll have another go soon. I really have to buy more tools. Every job even the smallest seems to require more tools.

The control arm ball joint just wouldn't shift, i think I may have taken the other two bolts out early and that made the ball joint impossible to budge. Or maybe its the lack of a tool, in the video i posted just above the guy was using a kind of metal pitchfork and hammer to get the ball joint free. I need to watch that again and see what he did that made it look so easy! At 2 minutes 34s, he's just using a metal pin type tool and a big hammer. I might need a bigger hammer too

Can someone tell me where exactly that guy is hitting with the pin type tool, i reckon there must be a sweet spot?

Oil soaked in over night can help as well as the heat, if careful to hit flat on flat of the track rod end lock nut can have the same effect in freeing off the nut as on the other part. The four large Stilsons I use are hanging on the wall, though I do have a smaller one that is good for other jobs. These work much better than conventional Mole grip types as the wrap on action just gets tighter gripping.Oil soaked in over night can help as well as the heat, if careful.
The part to hit when releasing taper joints is the metal that hides the taper of the joint, however accuracy and a firm blow is important and can be helped with a bar providing separation force at the same time.
I have watched people beating hell out of a joint with no success then taken over and given one or two firm blows and done the job.
Mind you I do mean firm blows, as an apprentice I missed a track control arm bottom ball joint , hitting my kneecap instead and knocked my self out with the pain

 

[AnthonyH]

Wowsers they're super impressive wrenches! Built to last i'm sure, how long have you had them? I've not ordered any Stilsons or similar yet.

I'll try hitting the metal that hides the taper of the joint tomorrow, and perhaps enlist some help to lever it away. I think its a matter of wrestling and hammering and persistence because i don't know the right technique. I could do with a proper crow bar, hmmm. I wish i could remember exactly what i did to get the first one off, it wasn't easy but i didn't have to give up for the day.

 

[bugsymike]

Wowsers they're super impressive wrenches! Built to last i'm sure, how long have you had them? I've not ordered any Stilsons or similar yet.

I'll try hitting the metal that hides the taper of the joint tomorrow, and perhaps enlist some help to lever it away. I think its a matter of wrestling and hammering and persistence because i don't know the right technique. I could do with a proper crow bar, hmmm. I wish i could remember exactly what i did to get the first one off, it wasn't easy but i didn't have to give up for the day.

They have certainly earned their keep over the years, but I did do a fair bit on large vans and pick ups as well as cars etc.
Even did a bit on a neighbours JCB type digger when they couldn't free of some linkage, they were both bigger than me, but my wielding of a suitable sledge hammer did the job along with some heat on pins that hadn't moved for years.
As has been mentioned by @rmjbn1 if using any heat be careful and always put your safety first, I was doing this for many years before retirement, so I have seen people injured, though mostly I have been lucky, or careful
The good thing about bigger tools , bars , etc. is less effort is required so you can control the force better.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

They have certainly earned their keep over the years, but I did do a fair bit on large vans and pick ups as well as cars etc.
Even did a bit on a neighbours JCB type digger when they couldn't free of some linkage, they were both bigger than me, but my wielding of a suitable sledge hammer did the job along with some heat on pins that hadn't moved for years.
As has been mentioned by @rmjbn1 if using any heat be careful and always put your safety first, I was doing this for many years before retirement, so I have seen people injured, though mostly I have been lucky, or careful
The good thing about bigger tools , bars , etc. is less effort is required so you can control the force better.

Control the force better but snap things off easier?

 

[bugsymike]

Control the force better but snap things off easier?

That is down to the operator, some could break things using a tea spoon.

 

[AnthonyH]

I got the second control arm on this morning, it took me about 2 hours, so not so easy. I adjusted a lot and generally learnt from my mistakes. I ended up putting a g-clamp on the ball joint so I could get a bar in there, stood on it and got it loose lol. I changed the tyre that had worn badly on the inner and took it for a drive, all is well.

I've put changing the tie rod ends on the back burner, it'll probably take me hours, maybe all day so i've lost the fight for now lol. I've kept the new tie rod ends and i'll go back to it when I have more time. My priority was to change the control arms, they killed a nearly new tyre and greatly reduced the lifespan of the other. I reckon the control arms halved the lifespan of those tyres. The seized tie rods and lack of new tracking isn't going to be anywhere near as bad for the tyres as those control arms. So anyway all done, for now anyway, thanks for the help fellas.

 

[vexorg]

Blow torch on the track rod ends will get them moving

 

[bugsymike]

As @vexorg says heat from a blow torch may shift it , but don't set fire to anything
I would say give it some oil to soak in for when you have another go , it may help. Personally I just use engine oil in an oil can, not WD40 or anything as too thin and soon washes off.
I take it the two hammers trick did do any good then?