Technical Still confused about which oil?

[stationary traveller]

Hi all, I'm still more than a little confused about which oil to use in my twinair trekking 2013? The handbook clearly states selenia k P.E 5w/40 which is also what comes up on the petronas lube selector despite the fact that alot of people are now saying that the new digitek P.E 0w/30 should now be used in all twinair engines? Shop 4 parts also throws up selenia k P.E although for 4x4 twinair which has exactly the same engine it comes up with selenia digitek P.E as does the petronas lube selector??
There simply doesn't seem to be a definitive answer anywhere & why does the 4x4 with exactly the same spec engine always show up a different oil?
It just doesn't seem to make any sense:bang:

 

[The Pretender]

By the last service of my September 2012 Panda TwinAir Turbo @ the Fiat dealer, they put "Selena K 05W40 Pure Energy C3" oil in the engine.
This is a Multi-Air and Twin-Air motor oil.

 

[stationary traveller]

I think thats what I'm gonna go with as i have a brand new unopened 5 litre tub of selenia K pure energy which i bought last yr for my 100hp just before i traded it in.

 

[TheR]

The 0w30 advise only came into play when the new euro 6 norm was introduced. The thinner oil was needed to meet the new norm. The models before euro 6 where advised to use the 5w40 and as there where no changes to the motor itsekf I will keep using this. Both will be fine though.

 

[Al D]

My TA 4x4 isn't 14 onwards but it has 0w 30 in it. Apparently it stops the top of the engine failing. Seemed a little quieter when cold, that's about it. Extra cost of the oil off the shelf not cheap, though my dealer didn't charge much per litre. Didn't have to pay the bill as was included when bought it

 

[TheR]

For those that are realy interested some interesting reading about the change to thinner oils(due to stricter euro norm considdering fuel economy) and the possible long term effects.

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/518/motor-oils

I'll stay with the 5w40

 

[stationary traveller]

Yes that does make for interesting reading and there is alot more to it than you think! Most of that goes over my head but i think that the reason behind the revised thinner oil is what we all understand to be the constant demand to meet euro regulations i think? Thinner oil equates to a little less friction & drag in the engine which in turn results in slightly better fuel economy & slightly less pollution.
As for myself i was always of the opinion that the slighly thicker oil would reduce wear on the engine anyway although some would probably debate this! So far as fuel consumption goes I'm more than happy with the twinair especially after coming the 100hp I'm averaging around 43 mpg on the work run & around 53mpg on a long run! Not to mention £20 a year road tax compared to £185.
I really can't see that the 5w/40 oil is actually going to cause damage to the engine especially as its whats specified in the handbook so yes I'm also going to stick with the selenia K pure energy.
Many thanks for all the info guys.

 

[The Pretender]

I have the "Selena K 05W40 Pure Energy C3" oil in it and running on my winter 15" Barchetta's with 205/50R15" Conti's TS790.
The last fuel numbers are 790 Km with 43 liter, that equals to roughly 52mpg. (combined work & long runs!)

Fuel consumption on 15's is a lot better then on 16's.

 

[TheR]

Yes that does make for interesting reading and there is alot more to it than you think! Most of that goes over my head but i think that the reason behind the revised thinner oil is what we all understand to be the constant demand to meet euro regulations i think? Thinner oil equates to a little less friction & drag in the engine which in turn results in slightly better fuel economy & slightly less pollution.
As for myself i was always of the opinion that the slighly thicker oil would reduce wear on the engine anyway although some would probably debate this! So far as fuel consumption goes I'm more than happy with the twinair especially after coming the 100hp I'm averaging around 43 mpg on the work run & around 53mpg on a long run! Not to mention £20 a year road tax compared to £185.
I really can't see that the 5w/40 oil is actually going to cause damage to the engine especially as its whats specified in the handbook so yes I'm also going to stick with the selenia K pure energy.
Many thanks for all the info guys.

Absolutely true. A lot goes over my head too but the main thing I get from it is that the move to the thinner oils is purely driven to meet stricter euro norms.
Our engine was designed with the 5w40 in mind at first so thats why I feel this is the best option considdering wear and performance in the future of the life of this engine.

 

[TheR]

I have the "Selena K 05W40 Pure Energy C3" oil in it and running on my winter 15" Barchetta's with 205/50R15" Conti's TS790.
The last fuel numbers are 790 Km with 43 liter, that equals to roughly 52mpg. (combined work & long runs!)

Fuel consumption on 15's is a lot better then on 16's.

I realy wonder how you and others figure out fuell consumption with all the different tires and sizes and inaccuracy of the speedo.
The only way in my eyes is to log all your km's by gps and then devide this by the liters you use at the gas station( and even there could be slight differances in the fill up). This is the only way to vet an accurate number.

Personally I don't give a rats ass, I just drive it in the way that fills my needs for the occasion and roughly come out at 13/14 km per liter(dont know what this is in mpg).
For my driving style and use I feel this is pretty fair(90% fast highway use ).

 

[The Pretender]

I divide Car computer KM's with the liters fuel i put in the car.
On the 16" 11-12.5 Km per liter was the best possible with the way i use the Panda.
I don't really care about fuel consumption, but i find it interesting how much it can differ compare to tire/wheel size/make.
And apparently what kind of Oil is in the engine.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Personally I don't give a rats ass, I just drive it in the way that fills my needs for the occasion and roughly come out at 13/14 km per liter(dont know what this is in mpg).
For my driving style and use I feel this is pretty fair(90% fast highway use ).

13 litre per km is 37mpg, 14l/km is 39 mpg (from here https://www.unitjuggler.com/convert-fuelconsumption-from-kmperl-to-mpgimperial.html )

Good point about the various tyres etc. Even with 'standard' tyres, the diameter varies by several percent over the life of the as the tread wears out.

 

[TheR]

13 litre per km is 37mpg, 14l/km is 39 mpg (from here https://www.unitjuggler.com/convert-fuelconsumption-from-kmperl-to-mpgimperial.html )

Good point about the various tyres etc. Even with 'standard' tyres, the diameter varies by several percent over the life of the as the tread wears out.

Thank you for the conversion and the usefull link
I always read all these stories about fuell consumption and I always wonder how accurate it all is. Differences between fill ups and tyre size play a big role. Also the speedo and on bord computer are at best indications so also not very dependable.
Yet somehow my real world use is always way worse then the majority of posters(not even going to get into factory specs...) but that also has a lot to do with individuel use and driving style.
That said the Twinair Turbo'ed Panda is the most economical car I ever owned driving and using it the way I do

 

[Putty John]

Might worth looking on the Shell web site or asking Shell


I thought this might be of interest, 2 cars of similar age and design both requires 10w 40 when new:

Reply from Shell UK

Dear John,

Thank you for providing the information.

To answer your question, an ACEA A5/B5 oil is not always better than an A3/B4 oil. Different engine models have different oil requirements and it is important that the oil selected covers the oil specifications designed for each specific application. We usually do not recommend one in place of the other because these specifications are different and not backwards compatible with each other. Since A5/B5 oils have lower HTHS (High Temperature, High Shear) viscosities, they can provide better fuel economy but may not provide enough protection in engines that are not designed for them. ACEA A3/B4 on the other hand require oils with higher HTHS viscosities that may not provide as good fuel economy as an A5/B5 oil but may offer better engine protection in certain engine designs.



However, as per checking your vehicle models in our reference, their minimum oil requirements are not ACEA A3/B4 or ACEA A5/B5, please see below:



Vectra 2.2 DTi (Vectra C - Y22DTR - 92kW) (DT) (2002-2005) -> requires GM B-025 0W/5W-40

Mondeo 1.8 TDCi Duratorq (74/92kW - M66) (MONDEO) (DT) (2007-2009) -> requires Ford 913C 5W-30



Indeed, the recommendations offered online are correct - the suitable products are Helix HX7 5W-40 and Helix Ultra Professional AF 5W30, respectively. These grades meet the respective oil specs required by the listed models above, and on top of that, the ACEA specs as well, but, it should be the GM B-025 and Ford 913C specs that we should be looking at. Considering all of these information, we are not recommending the use of just one oil on both engines as they have different designs and performance requirements.



Best regards,



Rachelle

Technical Helpdesk - UK

 

[circolo]

I've had to have the turbo replaced and cleaning of various components, under warranty, because the turbo had collapsed. The garage (Essex Auto Group), have said that even though 5w40 is in the handbook, we really should be using 0w30 oil. Because of failures like this. Sounds ******** to me. The handbook is surely correct?

 

[mosfidelity]

Hey guys.

I've been back and forth regarding putting some Prolong Oil+ on my panda. I have colleagues highly recommending this oil (they are claiming that the only oil that can keep their high-power (800 PS) audi engines running are the Prolong Oil+.

We use this oil at work (offshore), and did a fun test to see which oil had the best effect when putting a steel pipe in a cone fitting on a air driven drill. We tried all the best oil we could find, but the pipe got stuck between 5-10 seconds. With the Prolong Oil+ we stopped the experiment at 3 minutes. There was a slight increase in friction at 3 seconds, and then it seemed to be almost frictionless at that point. This oil is supposed to be good at hot-spots. I was thinking of pouring 0,5 liters or so in the panda, but since the cross (2015 Twin-air) is still under warranty, I'm a bit hesitant.

What do you guys reckon?

I actually found a video when googling the link to the datasheet showing what was observed in the example above:

 

[TheR]

Hey guys.

I've been back and forth regarding putting some Prolong Oil+ on my panda. I have colleagues highly recommending this oil (they are claiming that the only oil that can keep their high-power (800 PS) audi engines running are the Prolong Oil+.

We use this oil at work (offshore), and did a fun test to see which oil had the best effect when putting a steel pipe in a cone fitting on a air driven drill. We tried all the best oil we could find, but the pipe got stuck between 5-10 seconds. With the Prolong Oil+ we stopped the experiment at 3 minutes. There was a slight increase in friction at 3 seconds, and then it seemed to be almost frictionless at that point. This oil is supposed to be good at hot-spots. I was thinking of pouring 0,5 liters or so in the panda, but since the cross (2015 Twin-air) is still under warranty, I'm a bit hesitant.

What do you guys reckon?


I actually found a video when googling the link to the datasheet showing what was observed in the example above:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI9OlIyzGFs

Oil additives are always a bad idea( bit like 800ps audi engines I suppose). Also not quite sure what you would like to achieve or gain with it. Change oil every year(if you worry about 2 years being to long)with the right spec from a good brand and your engine will be fine for years to come.