Technical Sticking in gear

[Drozich]

Hi all, I’m hoping you can help.

2017 500S 1.2 with 71k miles.

Driving on motorway in stop-start traffic and car got stuck in 1st gear and wouldn’t come out. Managed to get to hard shoulder and switch car off and get it out of gear. Started the car and it’s driven home fine.

It did the same thing in a drive-thru about a month ago but has been ok since then. We took it to a mechanic and he couldn’t find anything so we assumed maybe a glitch but as it’s now done it a second time it’s a worry.

Any ideas what could be the issue?

Thanks in advance, as always.

 

[John202020]

Manuel or auto?

 

[Drozich]

Manuel or auto?

Hi John, it’s a manual box

 

[John202020]

If you can select the gears no problem engine off, then clutch hydraulics are a prime candidate ?

 

[Drozich]

Thanks John.

It was strange because once pulled over and car switched off it was able to be put into neutral. Car restarted and drove home fine.

I then test drove it later that day and it drove perfectly.

I have checked the master cylinder at the pedal and no leaks and also checked the slave and no leaks. The reservoir hasn't lost any fluid and is still at max level. The dry break connector failed around 12 months ago and was replaced.

The only two times it has done this has been in stop-start traffic.

Is there any chance it could be the clutch/release bearing malfunctioning and not disengaging properly or is this issue more common with hydraulics?

Thank you again mate.

 

[John202020]

Mm the clutch springs are really strong so tempted to say not clutch.
However this reminds me of our 09 car about a year ago it suddenly decided you simply couldn't select reverse, over time, months it gradually became ok but there's clear resistance still selecting reverse and taking out of 5th, the stick doesn't slip back to the normal position ie push forward for 3rd you physically have to move it

 

[Drozich]

Cheers John.

Do you know of any tests I can do on the hydraulic system to check?

It's my Daughter's car and she'll be paying for the clutch replacement so I don't want to send her down that route and find out I have got it wrong.

Thank you.

 

[rmjbn1]

I think you've checked everything you can.

In your position I'd be tempted to replace the slave cylinder. Usually the first thing to fail, typically get sticky when hot. Also the cheapest thing to replace.

They're plastic so they don't last that long, so arguably worth doing anyway.

But could also be master cylinder sucking air past the seals, gear cables, or selector mechanism in the gearbox

 

[Drozich]

I think you've checked everything you can.

In your position I'd be tempted to replace the slave cylinder. Usually the first thing to fail, typically get sticky when hot. Also the cheapest thing to replace.

They're plastic so they don't last that long, so arguably worth doing anyway.

But could also be master cylinder sucking air past the seals, gear cables, or selector mechanism in the gearbox

Thank you very much for your advice. Would these things present themselves intermittently and then get progressively worse?
Is there any chance there could a fault with the gear box internally?

Thanks again.

 

[rmjbn1]

Would these things present themselves intermittently and then get progressively worse?

Yes, very much so. With the gear cables as well as hydraulics. I've only had a sticking slave once, in traffic on a hot day. I put some grease under the slave boot, hasn't happened again but also I rarely drive in town. Slave is a fairly common problem on 169 Pandas, use the same parts as 500 but can be quite a bit older.

Is there any chance there could a fault with the gear box internally?

I think there's a chance, but unlikely. Selector can cause problems, a roll pin can become dislodged or break, but then I think this would not be intermittent.

And I agree with John, it doesn't sound like clutch to me.

It's hard to know at this point, you could spend more money trying to diagnose it.

Personally I would change the slave cylinder, but this might not be the cure.

Slave cylinders usually come with pipe and quick connector. Don't try to disconnect the quick connector on the car. Remove the pipe from the new slave and connect to the old pipe. Then bleed, or flush if the fluid is a few years old.

 

[steveras57]

Might be worth doing a clutch fluid flush through to change the fluid to new! the old fluid might have absorbed some water overtime (being hydroscopic) and with micro water droplets in the fluid( which are non-compressible) might just be limiting the clutch travel just a little under certain curcumstances( and in stop/start traffic everythings quite hot so turning to vapour might be an issue) thus the lock up!- when you stop the motor and restart its possible that the release of pressure and slight movement of components allows normal operation again until the next time conditions are "right" for it to be wrong"if you see what i mean" a fluid change and bleed through wont cost much so might be worth a try! .good luck.

 

[Drozich]

Cheers for all the advice guys. I have booked the car in with the garage we always use and trust. Their opinion lines up with most on here that it's likely to be the master cylinder seals allowing fluid back past them so this is the first port of call along with new fluid and I am going to ask then to put a new slave on there for good order. Will report back once all done and some miles driven.

Thanks again!

 

[Drozich]

Out of interest, how simple a job is replacing the clutch master cylinder? I am a reasonably competent DIY-er and the garage can't sort the car until 1st October.

Are there any how-to guides on here?

Thanks.

 

[rmjbn1]

 

[Drozich]

Thank you mate. I don’t suppose you know of one for the master cylinder as well do you?

Thanks again!

 

[John202020]

Under the dash, push off the ball joint the master cylinder push rod
Pull the clip holding the pipe in place, under bonnet and wiggle loose, undo the nuts and remove, really that easy

 

[Drozich]

John, you’re an absolute gem!! Thank you!

Would you go for the bare master cylinder or the one with the reservoir and pipes included?

To bleed its just pump it through the slave cylinder?

Thanks as ever!!

 

[John202020]

John, you’re an absolute gem!! Thank you!

Would you go for the bare master cylinder or the one with the reservoir and pipes included?

To bleed its just pump it through the slave cylinder?

Thanks as ever!!

When I did mine I was lucky, the new slave was only £25 and I managed to get a genuine Fiat master' pipe and reservoir for only £55 from Poland, but that was 6 years ago, so all my bits were brand new, if you can re use the reservoir than do so and buy just the bare master?

 

[RalphM]

Check the gear box oil, if it's never been changed change it,
may be a bit of long shot but worth it before getting into
the more expensive stuff.

 

[Drozich]

When I did mine I was lucky, the new slave was only £25 and I managed to get a genuine Fiat master' pipe and reservoir for only £55 from Poland, but that was 6 years ago, so all my bits were brand new, if you can re use the reservoir than do so and buy just the bare master?

Thanks John, I’ve found a bare master cylinder on eBay for £80 or a complete one for £128. There’s a bare slave for £28 so I’ll do the lot in one go.