Technical Starting issue...2000 Ducato 1.9TD

[Stholt]

I am back to a clicking starter again...last time I changed the battery and it fired right up, so I thought the issue sorted. My brother-in-law used it last weekend and the problem came back. It won't turn over, just get a sharp click-click-click noise from the starter. He got it going by roll starting it, and while running I checked the voltage from the alternator, 14.2v, checked the resistance of all the connected cables and earths, all under 0.3ohms. There is no measurable draw on the battery with key off. I changed the starter as that was the only thing left...still just clicking. Removed the lower console and checked all the relays, good. Finally found this green double 30A fuse holder up above the battery, right side with RED and PINK wires. These are powered directly off battery power in a small black junction box with 2 post terminals inside, from there the wires go to this fuse holder then into the wiring loom that I would rather not have to pull all apart to trace. The 30A fuse on the PINK wires melted taking the fuse holder with it. I am guessing this is the culprit at this point as everything else is testing good.

Can anyone confirm what these wires are supposed to be there for? I have looked in the e-learn cd, but the diagrams in there do not seem to match the wiring in this 1.9TD Cheers and thanks!

 

[Stholt]

Fixed that, but that did not solve the no starting. Guess I will keep searching

 

[jackwhoo]

Sounds like battery is dead or discharged

 

[jackwhoo]

You could try a jump lead from battery negative to engine-if situation improved them battery negative wire suspect

 

[bugsymike]

Sounds like battery is dead or discharged

Certainly well worth check the batteries health, I use a Ring Battery Condition meter where you type in the details from the battery , run the test and it tells what % of life is in the battery.
I would also see by testing using good jump leads from another vehicle, ideally earthing the negative lead on the engine metal near the starter and the positive , if safe to access I would put on the live terminal of the starter, then when ignition key is turned all the vehicles battery would need to do is activate the solenoid.
This would bypass any weak battery, earthing points on the vehicle and positive battery feed issues.
One small point , I assume the engine is sound and no mechanical problem aggravating the situation.
Personally I look for a minimum cranking specification on a diesel vehicle battery over 650amps.

 

[Stholt]

Battery is fully charged, holding resting voltage at 12.76v. I have tried another battery, also fully charged, and my jump box which will easily jump my 3.0l diesel in my ranger. I guess I am down to tracing wires and checking voltage at each break/connection. If I find the solution, I will post it here.

 

[Communicator]

I am back to a clicking starter again...last time I changed the battery and it fired right up, so I thought the issue sorted. My brother-in-law used it last weekend and the problem came back. It won't turn over, just get a sharp click-click-click noise from the starter. He got it going by roll starting it, and while running I checked the voltage from the alternator, 14.2v, checked the resistance of all the connected cables and earths, all under 0.3ohms. There is no measurable draw on the battery with key off. I changed the starter as that was the only thing left...still just clicking. Removed the lower console and checked all the relays, good. Finally found this green double 30A fuse holder up above the battery, right side with RED and PINK wires. These are powered directly off battery power in a small black junction box with 2 post terminals inside, from there the wires go to this fuse holder then into the wiring loom that I would rather not have to pull all apart to trace. The 30A fuse on the PINK wires melted taking the fuse holder with it. I am guessing this is the culprit at this point as everything else is testing good.

Can anyone confirm what these wires are supposed to be there for? I have looked in the e-learn cd, but the diagrams in there do not seem to match the wiring in this 1.9TD Cheers and thanks!

Given that the starter has been replaced, a clicking solenoid suggests that there is a bad connection in the operating path. This includes the starter relay if fitted, alternatively the ignition switch, also importantly the main battery and engine earth points. It is not possible to check these main earth points with a multimeter. Consider a starter motor draw of several times 100A, multiply that by the reported 0.3 Ohms. The result could exceed the battery voltage.
I would begin by trying a jump lead direct from battery negative to a clean point on engine , or gearbox. If this makes an improvement then the main earth points and battery negative terminal should be cleaned, and a light smear of vaseline applied to exclude moisture.
I am not aware of eLearn applying to the the x230 model. The attached diagram is an extract from the German language manual available on forum, which claims to cover the x230 model. The English annotations are mine. The diagram shows a starter relay. Relays are only rarely the cause of problems, and cannot be checked by a casual inspection. If a starter relay is not included then there could be a problem with the ignition switch starting contact.

Edit. Another thought. Are there any alarm systems, that may have a contact inserted in the starter solenoid circuit?

 

[Stholt]

Thanks for the info Communicator. There is no alarm or cutoff that I know of, had this camper for over a year now. We are the 9th or 10th owners at this point, and someone has definitely be at the electrics before.

Been at it for a few hours this morning, reworked a few connectors, terminals. Checked everything I could. Finally got a second set of hands and from what I can tell, the bendix is throwing out but hitting the flywheel(hard) but I am guessing not far enough to engage the contacts in the starter motor to spin. I bench tested the old starter motor and it throws out and spins just fine. Going to swap it back to test.

 

[bugsymike]

Been at it for a few hours this morning, reworked a few connectors, terminals. Checked everything I could. Finally got a second set of hands and from what I can tell, the bendix is throwing out but hitting the flywheel(hard) but I am guessing not far enough to engage the contacts in the starter motor to spin. I bench tested the old starter motor and it throws out and spins just fine. Going to swap it back to test.

Is it possible the starter has been supplied wrong?

 

[Stholt]

I was told the ground straps had all been cleaned and checked before the camper came back...figured I would check them again for good measure...snapped the bolt holding the strap to the gearbox...I really love creating more work for myself. Probably just going to make a new strap and attach it to one of the bolts holding the starter in place.

 

[Stholt]

Is it possible the starter has been supplied wrong?

It's possible, I will check it against the old one when I take it off.

 

[Stholt]

SUCCESS!! It was just the earthing strap where the bolt broke off. Once I took it off, I could hear the strap crunching if I bent it, probably been a poor connection for a while, overworking the strap trying to make up. I made up a whole new cable, bolted it in and she fired right up. I guess I'll have to stop trusting that if someone says they did something, that it actually was done. I really should have checked it myself at the beginning.

Thanks for the help and the suggestions!

 

[jackwhoo]

SUCCESS!! It was just the earthing strap where the bolt broke off. Once I took it off, I could hear the strap crunching if I bent it, probably been a poor connection for a while, overworking the strap trying to make up. I made up a whole new cable, bolted it in and she fired right up. I guess I'll have to stop trusting that if someone says they did something, that it actually was done. I really should have checked it myself at the beginning.

Thanks for the help and the suggestions!

If only someone had suggested putting a jump lead from the battery negative to the engine block to test the ground strap!


Well done with your fix

 

[Stholt]

Yeah yeah, back to the whole trusting someone had done so...lol.

I will, in the future, pay heed and try all those simple things BEFORE tearing half a vehicle apart.

 

[Bjbrownie]

I am back to a clicking starter again...last time I changed the battery and it fired right up, so I thought the issue sorted. My brother-in-law used it last weekend and the problem came back. It won't turn over, just get a sharp click-click-click noise from the starter. He got it going by roll starting it, and while running I checked the voltage from the alternator, 14.2v, checked the resistance of all the connected cables and earths, all under 0.3ohms. There is no measurable draw on the battery with key off. I changed the starter as that was the only thing left...still just clicking. Removed the lower console and checked all the relays, good. Finally found this green double 30A fuse holder up above the battery, right side with RED and PINK wires. These are powered directly off battery power in a small black junction box with 2 post terminals inside, from there the wires go to this fuse holder then into the wiring loom that I would rather not have to pull all apart to trace. The 30A fuse on the PINK wires melted taking the fuse holder with it. I am guessing this is the culprit at this point as everything else is testing good.

Can anyone confirm what these wires are supposed to be there for? I have looked in the e-learn cd, but the diagrams in there do not seem to match the wiring in this 1.9TD Cheers and thanks!

The green fuse holder is the electric supply to the engine cooling fans-the wiring goes down to the front and along the radiator crossmember up to the relay box mounted at the top of the fan shroud. You need to check that your fans are working ( use a light bulb/multimeter to check that there’s power going to the relays, the primary fan on mine was seized and overheated the wiring. The engines are well cooled and the fan rarely comes on I’ve found.

 

[Stholt]

The green fuse holder is the electric supply to the engine cooling fans-the wiring goes down to the front and along the radiator crossmember up to the relay box mounted at the top of the fan shroud. You need to check that your fans are working ( use a light bulb/multimeter to check that there’s power going to the relays, the primary fan on mine was seized and overheated the wiring. The engines are well cooled and the fan rarely comes on I’ve found.

Thank you! I did wire in 2 seperate fuse holders to replace the burnt up holder. Good to know what that was actually for, and might explain why it was starting to overheat if we pushed it to 120kph. I will keep an eye on this. Appreciate the info.

 

[Redeagle]

I am back to a clicking starter again...last time I changed the battery and it fired right up, so I thought the issue sorted. My brother-in-law used it last weekend and the problem came back. It won't turn over, just get a sharp click-click-click noise from the starter. He got it going by roll starting it, and while running I checked the voltage from the alternator, 14.2v, checked the resistance of all the connected cables and earths, all under 0.3ohms. There is no measurable draw on the battery with key off. I changed the starter as that was the only thing left...still just clicking. Removed the lower console and checked all the relays, good. Finally found this green double 30A fuse holder up above the battery, right side with RED and PINK wires. These are powered directly off battery power in a small black junction box with 2 post terminals inside, from there the wires go to this fuse holder then into the wiring loom that I would rather not have to pull all apart to trace. The 30A fuse on the PINK wires melted taking the fuse holder with it. I am guessing this is the culprit at this point as everything else is testing good.

Can anyone confirm what these wires are supposed to be there for? I have looked in the e-learn cd, but the diagrams in there do not seem to match the wiring in this 1.9TD Cheers and thanks!

Hi I had the same thing on a different car I changed clutch and inadvertently forgot the earth strap to engine
Also sometime you have to add extra earth from battery to engine best is accross front of car and attach near the engine mount cable tie with bit of slack obviously good luck