Panda (Classic) Snatch Panda

[panda1408]

Exhaust is same but inlets are different as far as I know.. buy a exhaust mani gasket and try it to be sure before buying actual manifold ?
If you find someone breaking a mk1 punto 16v you might consider getting the cams as well. Little bit livelier although totally not end of the world to not have them.
But yes they are getting hard to find now. I'd bet them 150quid 421 for the 16v on ebay, direnza iirc, would not take up more room than a stock mani if all else fails

I had been looking at the Direnza ones, they would be the ideal solution if I could work out it would fit before buying one! There is very little room when the rad etc is in there. I do know some people have used John Ashley manifolds and they had to be modified to fit due to them sticking out too far from the block, that's what makes me think the Direnza will be the same.

Perhaps a phone call is required to see if I can get some dimensions for the Direnza one.

 

[andyholli]

panda1408 - Vern used a modified Ashley one for Project Panda-Looking Panda didn't he..? - Does he have a contact with them who knows how to make a Panda spec version 'off the shelf'? - Just found it on page 10 of that thread but don't know how to do links, sorry Freddy.

Also - looking at the Direnza picture there's no flexi joint in there, are you happy to run it all 'stiff' - I think some more movement can be a good thing when the pipes get dragged over rocks sometimes..

How much is a new Punto 85 cast one? - (I maybe be biased but like cast exhaust manifolds for their quietness.)

Honest.

 

[panda1408]

panda1408 - Vern used a modified Ashley one for Project Panda-Looking Panda didn't he..? - Does he have a contact with them who knows how to make a Panda spec version 'off the shelf'? - Just found it on page 10 of that thread but don't know how to do links, sorry Freddy.

Also - looking at the Direnza picture there's no flexi joint in there, are you happy to run it all 'stiff' - I think some more movement can be a good thing when the pipes get dragged over rocks sometimes..

How much is a new Punto 85 cast one? - (I maybe be biased but like cast exhaust manifolds for their quietness.)

Honest.

Are new ones even available? Looking quickly I can't find a single one for sale.

I think the Direnza one would need modifying at the bottom end to clear the gear linkage so some sort of flexi joint could be incorporated there. Looking at the state of the exhaust hangers on the car it will need to have some give in it!

Yes, I had seen what Vern had done, I did think it might be worth a call to JA to see if they could make one, I will be honest though and say I wasn't too impressed by the photos on their site, cosmetically the Direnza one looks far better and it is considerably cheaper.

 

[andyholli]

I reckon you could make one.. in about a week..

 

[blu73]

i know a few cento lads got John Ashleys ones for their 16v swaps and JA actually made them with tighter bends so they didn't stick out cause they foul the rad in a cento too.. So might be worth ringing them and asking how much to make one with as tighter bends as they can...

If i could weld I'd defo have a stab at making a manifold!!

I was thinking about getting one of the direnza ones for my p75 swap, hadn't considered that it might not fit lol.... Guess it would make a nice wall hanging for the garage if not lol.

 

[andyholli]

Or back into the national lottery to find a 16v mk1 Punto with an MOT to get it home, for the same sort of money..

 

[blu73]

thing is, if you find one and its not rotten to buggery its kinda of a shame to rip it apart, not like when there was literally loads of them on ebay, autotrader, gumtree etc. Actually rarely see any mk1s anymore Presume the 1.2 16v old shape bravo/a have same exhaust mani but they are just as hard to find.

 

[mrcinquecento]

Try find a mk1 punto 85 manifold.. can modify a downpipe to meet up with whatever exhaust is under the car. That would result in decat as the punto had the cat under the car behind the engine in the section after the downpipe.
I might have a pic of one somewhere from when I did my cinq 16v swap - I'll have a look when at computer.

Basically, that's what i done with my 16v cinq conversion.

Had an aftermarket exhaust already but just chopped a punto 85 downpipe and welded it to the aftermarket downpipe (which had a sports cat welded into it).

 

[northernchap]

Andy, I didn't even think about taking the head of Johns engine, I can't think of a reason to really, its fairly low mileage and showed no signs of burning oil or any other issues.

Besides, if he wants that doing he can do it himself now!

 

[andyholli]

Just got to slap it all back together now.

Oh, yes, and find that misfire..

- Done the first bit - but not the second..

Cylinder four still has an occasional miss fire. Wasted spark and batch fire mean it's easy to eliminate the electrical trigger sides of the equation for that one cylinder by swapping connections around.
Compression test showed all good news and moving injectors about eliminated those too.
So at the moment I'm theorising an air leak in the inlet tract for cylinder four. Where the aluminium and plastic sections meet there are rubber seals that look okay but may not be..
Fun, fun, fun.:bang:

 

[kolza]

A. make sure your c4 injector harness is in good condition, same as ECU multi-plug is dry and sealed-off, same as ground to ECU and engine block.

 

[andyholli]

Thanks J. - It seems fine and the missfire is very intermittent - okay for a few seconds then not. Add revs quickly and it misses, add them slowly and hold them off tickover and no miss. Weird.

Anyway - part of the pleasure of having a broken car is the thrill of the diagnosis - the more complicated or unusual the better. - but also more frustrating.
And another part of the pleasure is the excuse to buy new tools - check out my new leak down tester:


- Probably never use that more than once..

 

[blu73]

really does sound exactly like my old cinq 16v, found it so weird but could never find anything wrong with it I gave up and just lived with it but it was never much of an issue, like i said before, you could drive around it no problem and that became 2nd nature and just how i drove it but always did annoy me.

 

[panda-sport]

Thanks J. - It seems fine and the missfire is very intermittent - okay for a few seconds then not. Add revs quickly and it misses, add them slowly and hold them off tickover and no miss. Weird.

Sounds like a lazy injector to me. It can't open quickly when reving hard but has time to 'keep up' when slowly rolling in the revs.

The over option is the injector is down on volume but has time to rob the air/fuel mixture from the plenum when rolling in.

 

[kolza]

A. Have you checked fuel pressure ( sorry if I've missed that)?

 

[northernchap]

check out my new leak down tester

I bought a very similar looking box from eBay a few years ago, mine was a compression tester though. My mate borrowed it first, found terrible compression on all cylinders on his car and started stripping the engine down, then I tried it on another car and got the same results - borrowed one from a friendly mechanic and it read fine - just to be aware, don't trust it if it seems to be defying logic!

 

[andyholli]

Sounds like a lazy injector to me. It can't open quickly when reving hard but has time to 'keep up' when slowly rolling in the revs.

The over option is the injector is down on volume but has time to rob the air/fuel mixture from the plenum when rolling in.

Excellent logic panda-sport and it may yet turn out to be the explanation but when I swapped injector one and four over it didn't change the symptoms on cylinder four, so I've dismissed the injector for the moment.:bang:

 

[andyholli]

A. Have you checked fuel pressure ( sorry if I've missed that)?

I haven't checked that J - because I need to buy another tool to do so

Since injector four is furthest from the regulator could that make a difference? - but miss fire on idle but not at a steady 3-4000 rpm..? Could low rail pressure explain that?

 

[andyholli]

I bought a very similar looking box from eBay a few years ago, mine was a compression tester though. My mate borrowed it first, found terrible compression on all cylinders on his car and started stripping the engine down, then I tried it on another car and got the same results - borrowed one from a friendly mechanic and it read fine - just to be aware, don't trust it if it seems to be defying logic!

Good advice northernchap, thank you. I try to use the gauges for comparisons only and ignore the values. - But your advice to get 'mates' to test out and calibrate new tools for you is an excellent one, I shall be on the lookout for gullible souls around here.

- Always interested in an excuse to strip down the engine though..

 

[andyholli]

Grrrr.
Leak down test showed cylinder to be holding pressure fine so no excuse for an engine bottom end tear down yet. But its back to the drawing board with theories..
Not easy to hear in this video but on tick over its an irregular miss - sometimes smooth for a second or two but most of the time missing.
Smooths out if revs are held steady off tick over.
Misses and stumbles when the throttle is opened quickly.



Still thinking mixture issue from leaning out under high inlet tract vacuum somehow. But all suggestions welcomed.