Technical Registering a new vehicle battery?

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Technical Registering a new vehicle battery?

JandB

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Hi,

We have a 2016 Fiat Ducato Campervan and I want to fit a new vehicle battery. We do not have "start and stop".

Will the new battery need to be registered (coded) to the vehicles computer?

The old battery was as fitted by Fiat at manufacturing and was 95ah and 800A. The new Yuasa battery is 100ah and 900A.

Thank you in anticipation
 
Model
Ducato 2.3
Year
2016
Mileage
27000
If there is no shunt with two thin measuring wires connected to it, fitted on the negative pole of the battery, the ECU will not be able to calculate the state of charge of the battery. Hence no need for the ECU to know the battery capacity.
 
If there is no shunt with two thin measuring wires connected to it, fitted on the negative pole of the battery, the ECU will not be able to calculate the state of charge of the battery. Hence no need for the ECU to know the battery capacity.
Thank you for the reply and please excuse my ignorance, but what am I looking for regarding a shunt? What does a shunt look like?

Thank you
 
Thank you for the reply and please excuse my ignorance, but what am I looking for regarding a shunt? What does a shunt look like?

Thank you
I do not have a picture to hand. A shunt is used to measure the electric current flowing into or out of the battery. A distinguishing feature would be the two small wires leading from it. An alternitive would be a Hall Effect device, which can do the same job, but as it uses electronics it would have one or two extra small wires for power supply.
 
I have a Dec 2020 Manufactured X2/90 with start stop, and what Fiat call an 'intelligent battery sensor' and and others call a 'shunt'
I have fitted a new battery without issue
Even though its a standard varta silver lead acid
Not a start stop battery
No issues
Just remember to follow the procedure in the handbook when disconnecting
Shut all the doors and wait a minute for the computer to shut down before cutting its power
Otherrwise its like pulling the plug on an old home PC without shutting it down first
You will usually get away with it, but if you are unlucky you won't.
 
I do not have a picture to hand. A shunt is used to measure the electric current flowing into or out of the battery. A distinguishing feature would be the two small wires leading from it. An alternitive would be a Hall Effect device, which can do the same job, but as it uses electronics it would have one or two extra small wires for power supply.
You've be kind, thank you. I don't believe I have what you describe but to be sure, this is my present battery in situ, perhaps you could have a look? I'm hoping I can do a straight swap with a new Yuasa without the need for travelling to a town for someone to code it into the vans ECU.

Thanks again
IMG_20240606_090342517.jpg
 
If "vehicle battery" equals starter battery I think the answer should be no for a 2016. I have not seen any signs of a "battery capacity setting" or similar in the Fiat control units in my 2018
Yes ... In campervans we usually distinguish vehicle (starter) batteries and leisure batteries.
My apologies for any confusion.
I've put a pic up of the current battery in situ and hope to do a straight swap with a new Yuasa. The Yuasa has a slightly different configuration in that the old Fiat battery is 95ah and 800A and the new Yuasa is 100ah and 900A. The physical dimensions of both are the same.
IMG_20240606_090342517.jpg
 
No registration required, Thank goodness.

Follow the battery disconnect procedure in the handbook exactly......you do not want problems with the computers in the vehicle.

Plus make absolutely certain the keys are no where near the ignition switch when disconnecting or reconnecting the battery.you don't want a damaged imobiliser.
 
Hi,

We have a 2016 Fiat Ducato Campervan and I want to fit a new vehicle battery. We do not have "start and stop".

Will the new battery need to be registered (coded) to the vehicles computer?

The old battery was as fitted by Fiat at manufacturing and was 95ah and 800A. The new Yuasa battery is 100ah and 900A.

Thank you in anticipation

My 2017 has a regular battery, it was just a case of replace, NO coding necessary, simple.
 
You've be kind, thank you. I don't believe I have what you describe but to be sure, this is my present battery in situ, perhaps you could have a look? I'm hoping I can do a straight swap with a new Yuasa without the need for travelling to a town for someone to code it into the vans ECU.

Thanks againView attachment 446084
Sorry for the delay in reply, but no sign of a shunt or similar device attached to the negative terminal of the battery.

As has been advised, do follow the procedure for disconnection, as advised in Fiat handbook.
 
Sorry for the delay in reply, but no sign of a shunt or similar device attached to the negative terminal of the battery.

As has been advised, do follow the procedure for disconnection, as advised in Fiat handbook.
Just to wrap this up and to thank each of you.

The starter battery change went smoothly and I didn't even need to reset the radio using the code as it worked perfectly when switched back on. I only needed to reset the date and time on the fiat system.

So to conclude, my 2016 Fiat Ducato Campervan DIDN'T need the new starter battery to be registered/coded to my van, it was a straight swap.

Thank you all!!!!
 
Just to wrap this up and to thank each of you.

The starter battery change went smoothly and I didn't even need to reset the radio using the code as it worked perfectly when switched back on. I only needed to reset the date and time on the fiat system.

So to conclude, my 2016 Fiat Ducato Campervan DIDN'T need the new starter battery to be registered/coded to my van, it was a straight swap.

Thank you all!!!!
Sorry to be coming in a bit late to this one, but for everyone's general interest:-

If a new battery needs to be fitted, most late model cars with Stop/Start technology need to have the new battery "coded" to the car. Stop/Start puts a very different demand on the battery with repeated stop/start cycles and the need to replace the charge being used up. So on late model vehicles the alternator is controlled by a "smart" electronic control unit (computer) which can vary the charge being delivered to the battery to optimize it's charging and performance. This wee control module (computer) needs some quite precise information on the condition of the battery both in terms of state of charge and it's internal condition in general so that it can command the alternator to deliver the appropriate charge rate - some can boost voltage to around 18 volts and well over 100 amps in the right circumstances. They can also vary charging load depending on whether the engine is idling, on overrun or being asked to produce maximum acceleration (regenerative charging is a typical descripor you'll see) They don't simply charge the battery when it needs charging any more. - they're pretty serious bits of kit compared to older cars.

It's the "Battery Condition Monitor" which monitors what the battery is doing and sends this to the wee ECU controlling the alternator. A typical one will be fitted to the negative terminal of the battery and look something like this one, which is the one on my new Skoda:

P1110825.JPG


It's the black thing with the white lettering on it. They differ a bit from make to make, but all look very similar (at least the ones I've seen do).

One of the things it allows the controlling module to do is alter the charge being delivered to the battery as it ages to get the most out of it. The problem is that when you then remove the old battery and fit a new one the system doesn't know it's got a new battery so goes on charging it as if it's the old one. The system will probably have been having to push a higher rate of charge into the old battery as it's plates sulphate with age so it'll just keep on doing this to the new battery to it's detriment if you don't tell it to reset. I've been told, by several professionals I'm friendly with, that if you don't do the reset when fitting the new battery then the new battery will almost certainly fail prematurely. You won't know anything is going on for some time because the stop/start will work fine (stop/start malfunctioning is a "classic" sign of a battery failing) but the battery is in fact being consistently over charged and will fail early due to this abuse. I was told that if the old battery was in pretty poor condition then they've known the new battery to fail in as little as a year or slightly longer - it all depends on how hard the ecu was "driving" the charge to the old battery. Doing the reset takes all the charge rates back to the factory setting so avoids all these problems.

If you don't have Stop/Start and/or the monitor on the negative battery terminal then you can probably say with some certainty, that you don't need to do the reset. Also worth thinking about is that you'll get away with fitting a stop start battery to a car without Stop/Start in fact you may find it beneficial as they are generally higher output units. However don't expect a standard battery to work well on a car fitted with Stop/Start as it's not designed for such rapid charge/discharge duty cycles and will probably fail early if used in circumstances where Stop/Start operates often. So a standard "wet" lead acid battery is Ok in a vehicle without Stop/Start but you'll need an EFB (Enhanced Flooded Battery) or AGM (Advanced Glass Matt) battery for stop start. AGMs are expensive so most "afordable" Stop/Start cars come fitted with EFB. In fact if the battery in your car has EFB - or AGM - on the top of it it's a good indicator that the car has a battery condition monitor and will require a reset if a new battery is fitted,

Don't confuse the monitor with a simple wire junction block like this on our Panda:

P1110832.JPG


The negative terminal is the one on the right and you'll see all those wires? the block they are connected to is just to make it easier to connect all the wires, no battery condition monitor here!

By the way I'm not surprised to hear JandB say that he didn't loose his radio code. Neither our Panda nor my boy's Punto lost their codes when their batteries were disconnected and I believe this is because Fiats of this sort of age store the code in the body control module. As long as you keep the original radio/entertainment system, then it all reconnects when the battery is reconnected. I'm not quite so sure about very late model vehicles though.

Hope that helped and wasn't too complicated? There's some good stuff on Battery condition monitors if you want to search for it.
 
Depends on which system whether a new battery needs registering
I was told the Ducato resets itself when you disconnect the battery, and sets itself to the new one
This has been my experience and appears to be confirmed by Banner

QUOTE: https://www.bannerbatterien.com/en-...TO-Correctly-registering-start-stop-batteries

modern vehicles with Battery Energy Management (BEM) may or may not require or recommend that the new battery be registered.

1. Self-learning system: The BEM has only a few pre-programmed battery options per car model stored in it, which are used as reference data. Following the replacement of a start-stop battery, the BEM compares the actual values of the new battery with the learning values stored in the BEM and learns which of the stored reference data matches the measured actual battery performance. The following car manufacturers work with self-learning systems: e.g. Abarth, Alfa Romeo, BMW, Chevrolet-Daewoo, Citroen, Dacia, Fiat, Honda, Lancia, Mercedes, Mitsubishi, Peugeot, Renault, Subaru, Suzuki, Toyota and Volvo.
 
It can be difficult to find independent advice on the web as most of the knowledgeable people are trying to sell you something
People like Halfords just say bring it in and we'll check it.
or as Warren Buffet says ' never ask a Barber if you need a haircut'
For instance I was told I would need a B2B charger for charging a secondary battery from my smart alternator Ducato
I just replaced the start stop battery with one standard battery, connected to 4 more (2 under each seat) through a 200 amp relay activated by the ignition switch. I monitor the voltages through a voltmeter on both circuits. Been working great for 3 years, although recently I found the secondary batteries weren't always getting charged due to the relay sticking open (corroded connection or faulty relay - its a very cheap Chinese one)
So I am thinking of doing away with the relay and leaving the 5 batteries connected permanently - the high capacity means I never get near to getting them discharged, and having 5 in parallel they would have to be very discharged not to start the engine.
 
Depends on which system whether a new battery needs registering
I was told the Ducato resets itself when you disconnect the battery, and sets itself to the new one
This has been my experience and appears to be confirmed by Banner

QUOTE: https://www.bannerbatterien.com/en-...TO-Correctly-registering-start-stop-batteries

modern vehicles with Battery Energy Management (BEM) may or may not require or recommend that the new battery be registered.

1. Self-learning system: The BEM has only a few pre-programmed battery options per car model stored in it, which are used as reference data. Following the replacement of a start-stop battery, the BEM compares the actual values of the new battery with the learning values stored in the BEM and learns which of the stored reference data matches the measured actual battery performance. The following car manufacturers work with self-learning systems: e.g. Abarth, Alfa Romeo, BMW, Chevrolet-Daewoo, Citroen, Dacia, Fiat, Honda, Lancia, Mercedes, Mitsubishi, Peugeot, Renault, Subaru, Suzuki, Toyota and Volvo.
Thanks for that Reg. My "historic" car knowledge is pretty wide based due to having worked in several non make specific workshops. However much of my experience with newer cars is based on VAG products so I'm very aware of the need to code/register their batteries. I was aware that some makes don't have to be coded as they do it themselves and I much appreciate your post above listing them. Cheers!
 
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