Technical rear brake drum stuck

[Rotski]

Failed the MOT because of the handbrake. To little effect. (Nothing wrong on the brake test, same numbers on both sides (0,4). Adjusted the slack in the wire before the check, but they didn't think it was tight enough. Tighted it even more today, to the point of no return. But it doesn't seem to make much difference.

So i was thinking to inspect the shoes and change them. But i cant get the damn drums of. Stuck solid.

Any tips beyond the normal screwdriver between the backplate and drum.

I was thinking a sliding hammer might do the trick. Anyone tried this?

 

[unomad]

with the wheel off you can see the 4 holes for wheel studs and there should be 2 more smaller ones find 2 bolts to fit the treads inside when you tightin bolts in the drum starts to work its way off .not sure size of bolt or the tread dont even think there is bolts on the car like it but sure some one will enlighten us also make sure hand break is adjusted off fully

 

[Rotski]

Actually fitted bolts in there today, and tried to use the wheel as leverage. So i have the bolts ready waiting to be used tomorrow. Thank you very much for the tip!

 

[pandamaniac]

Make sure the handbrake is fully slackened off at the adjuster under the car.
Take off the wheel and belt the outside of the drum with a hammer to free off the shoes. Then try your screws to pull it off.

If all else fails prise from backplate with a large screwdriver.
If the lip on the inside of the drums is very large you may need to file it off or get new drums.

 

[james2609]

You could use a rubber mallet and give them some hard whacks around the outside, keep turning it and hitting it, this should help to free them off. When using screwdrivers, make sure to use two at opposite sides of the drum, I personally find they come off much quicker this way, don't know about others

 

[Harllequin]

I remember on ARG the rear drums were so far gone the lip was huge. I dicovered this when the drum fell in half after the slightest of taps with a mash hammer by a slightly cross me

 

[Rotski]

Well, inspected the shoes today, and i didn't think they were much worn, and just a minor lip on the drum.

Noticed this:

Left side:

Right side:

Is the shoe worn down, or is there some slack in the mechanism pulling the shoes out against the drum when engaging the handbrake?

 

[Harllequin]

That looks like you have a leak on that wheel cylinder. If any of that fluid goes onto the pads they will not work very well at all.

You can buy a refurb kit but to be honest I'd just replace it if its leaking.

 

[james2609]

That looks like you have a leak on that wheel cylinder. If any of that fluid goes onto the pads they will not work very well at all.

You can buy a refurb kit but to be honest I'd just replace it if its leaking.

I never knew you could refurb cylinders, I always thought once they're gone, they have to be replaced. Learn something new every day as they say

 

[panda1408]

I never knew you could refurb cylinders, I always thought once they're gone, they have to be replaced. Learn something new every day as they say

There usually isn't much point in refurbing them since a cylinder only costs a tenner and the refurb kits costs about 4 quid.

 

[Rotski]

It's not leaking, i sprayed some 5-56 on there. Took the image right after, maybe not to smart.

 

[unomad]

the gap you see is most likely there cos handbrake is slackened off ??

 

[Harllequin]

There is a leading and trailing edge to brake shoes, they might be in the wrong way round. If they are then the brakes on the back wont hold so well.

Might be worth a try.

 

[Rotski]

They are slackened of, but when i push the arm manually, the shoe on the left went further out than the one on the right side, where the distance is.

Hm...wrong way round you say...can you elaborate?...havent done much brake shoe-stuff earlier...

 

[Harllequin]

If you look at the shoes on the car, the edge that is on the top may need to be at the bottom.

 

[VmanC]

They are slackened of, but when i push the arm manually, the shoe on the left went further out than the one on the right side, where the distance is.

Hm...wrong way round you say...can you elaborate?...havent done much brake shoe-stuff earlier...

You can't get them the wrong way round with a panda coz if you did they would not locate onto the pins that go into the self adjusting pads.
It's quite normal for one shoe to operate better than the other when you're testing them with the drum off, but when the drum is fitted the second shoe works fine once the first has made contact with the drum.

In your picture you show the self adjuster, it's the round thing on the shoe. It fits over a pin on the backplate to hold it still. Inside it are two discs, one in front of the shoe, one behind, and they the grip the brake shoe with the help of a spring. They don't grip so tightly that the shoe can't move of course, just enough to stop the shoe coming too far back from the drum when the brakes are released. If these discs are worn or the spring pressure has weakened they won't do thier job properly.
It's a rubbish system, and I notice on my '94' CLX they have gone for a more conventional ratchet system, not perfect either, but at least you can adjust it up manually from time to time.

The first thing I would do is take the handbrake cable off and check it operates freely. with it off the car you can hold it vertically and try to run some oil down inside it. Also, the link that operates the shoes pivots on a pin, make sure it's not seized here too. If you can't get the cable to run really smoothly, fit a new one, it's well worth it as it's such an important part of the system.

 

[Rotski]

Thanks for all the responses. Will investigate further and see if i can find a solution. I'm going for a passed MOT by the end of march!

 

[Rotski]

Can't get the new shoes on

Hello again. Update.

So, i bought new shoes and was planning on changing them today. Got the old ones out. But can't get the new ones on. Got tired after trying everything i could think of. Followed the guide in the Guides section, no luck.
My arms went numb, now the feeling is back, so now i am writing for help.

Compared the new ones to the old ones to see if the new ones were any different that made the job harder.

Noticed that i can freely move the auto adjuster on the old ones, but they are stuck solid on the new ones, they budge a little when hit them with a hammer.


Here is some photos of the phenomena:

Old ones to the right in both photos.

Will they work at all when the adjuster is almost stuck in place?
Will it help to remove the rear hub/bearing assembly?

 

[alexbpl]

You have to use 4 bolts to pull the drums off. They should screw into the side of the drum as you look at it, and then hit a hard point - at which they will begin to force the drums off from over the shoes.

If its very tight use a hammer and hit evenly and hard over the drum whilst rotating it backwards.

Can you actually swap the rear panda drums for any family upgrades like punto's etc? Might be an idea if you say the design is naff.

 

[firstcar-Y10]

the new shoes should have much stiffer adjusters, that's the point of them, they take up the slack as the surface wears down. As the old ones wear they will start to slip with the tension from the return springs and that's when you finish up with a long travel on the pedal as they have further to move before they contact the drum. That's always the bit that wears out first for me and annoys me into changing them before the actual friction surface wears down.