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Punto (Mk1) Project R the Mk1 Cabrio Restoration project

1998 Rosso Red Mk1 Punto ELX Cabrio, that has been very neglected.

Introduction

Project page for my 1998 Punto Cabrio Restoration project. This car was aquired in October 2023, with no service history and in a pretty poor state, however they are becoming extremely rare now in the UK, just a dozen or so of the 1.2 16v models left on the road and about 30 or so cabrios in total.

Pictures are from the forsale add and ones the previous owner sent me before I got it.
Was that from the oil cap off?
Maybe some engine flush a few times is needed to clean out the crap from the engine
 
Maybe some engine flush a few times is needed to clean out the crap from the engine
Already bought some.

Yes, some idiot left the oil cap off when he, or she (I would not want to apportion blame), went to buy fire wood, then drove to the supermarket about 5 or so miles away, then maybe noticed the car was 'bleeding' when they noticed oil leaking from under the bonnet and running down the front bumper when they came back to the car.
 
There are now 3 ways to do an oil change. Take out the sump plug, use a vacuum to suck the oil out, or my newly invented method. Drive at high revs with no oil cap on and let the engine eject its own oil.
According to wikipedia a system sometimes used in older racing cars I believe:- A total-loss oiling system is an engine lubrication system whereby oil is introduced into the engine, and then either burned or ejected overboard.
Oh! Also steam engines, how is the coolant level?;)
 
I was wondering how you'd done it...as I could see the oil cap in the picture and it was on..
Otherwise known as "the horse has bolted method";). Sorry to take the pi** but that was the working environment I was trained in, so naturally give as good as you get was the norm.:)
As an example when an apprentice, I took a week off work to respray my Ford outside the workshop with bosses permission, when finished and as proudly standing back to admire, the other mechanics all came out to inspect the fruits of my labour, then proceeded to look up into the sky. When I asked why, they said they were searching for the seagulls that sh*t on my car!
In an effort to be more constructive, usually an aerosol of "Gunk" or similar from accessory shop, vigorously brushed in, followed by warm soapy water does the job.
I know it is not advised but if cleaning under the bonnet of a vehicle I have a old commercial steam cleaner, which with or without detergent soon shifts most muck, the benefit of the steam is it dries quickly as opposed to a simple pressure washer.
Obviously ECUs need protection.
The only problem I found was with PSA cars only, the heat started to remove the factory painted stone chip on the sills, mainly Citroen and Peugeot Partners etc.
Fiats seemed impervious thankfully.;)
 
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I have fond memories of taking two strips of paint off my previously immaculate Fiat Uno with a karcher...so no heat required in my experience...

Re. The horse bolting..I was looking at thinking he'd got a little carried away with trying to get cylinder 2 to seal when doing his pressure test and achieved an oil fountain.
 
I was wondering how you'd done it...as I could see the oil cap in the picture and it was on..
But you maybe able to see the oil cap is the only clean part lmao 🤣
Otherwise known as "the horse has bolted method";). Sorry to take the pi** but that was the working environment I was trained in, so naturally give as good as you get was the norm.:)
I expect nothing less!

In an effort to be more constructive, usually an aerosol of "Gunk" or similar from accessory shop, vigorously brushed in, followed by warm soapy water does the job.
funny you should say that, at 10pm last night I was under the bonnet with a spray van of gunk and a pressure washer blasting off the oil while the water was begining to freeze on the glass, I wanted to get it clean before brining it back in the garage so as not to drip oil all over the garage floor.

after a liberal blasting of every part of the engine I was relieved to find it still started especially as I was not being careful of the electrics.

Well it needed a good clean anyway.
 
According to wikipedia a system sometimes used in older racing cars I believe:- A total-loss oiling system is an engine lubrication system whereby oil is introduced into the engine, and then either burned or ejected overboard.
Oh! Also steam engines, how is the coolant level?;)
My dad had an old cavalier where I thought it was a similar system. It would use about 5 litres a year, so I figured doing an annual oil change was pointless.
 
My dad had an old cavalier where I thought it was a similar system. It would use about 5 litres a year, so I figured doing an annual oil change was pointless.
I did have an old Morris 1100 that at night when you could see the car behinds headlights in your mirror by accelerating they would disappear, I suspect less due to the fantastic acceleration, more to do with the smoke screen either preventing the light shining through or the driver choking to death and driving into a ditch.;)
 
Had a 127GT 1300 that a Fiat delaer serviced many many years ago and included a valve reshim. We drove home with nothing obviously wrong till we braked hard for some lights. Clouds of white smoke emerge from from under the bonnet.

Mechanic had refitted the rocket cover and gasket but the front edge of the gasket was not located on the studs but drooping inside the cam carrier.

All that lovelly oil in the cam carrier swam forward, out and over the exhaust manifold.

As we picked the car up late the garage was closed/closing so decided to go home slowly.

What a mess to clean up but at least the oil was clean and fresh.
 
I managed to finally perform a full Compression test today and the Dry numbers were all around 175 - 170 -180 and the wet numbers were all 210 and one was 215. I took another look with a scope afterwards and the piece of debris was gone from cylinder 4, still no damage to the top of the piston suggestive of any impact with anything, but looking more clearly today and with having had some oil in every cylinder, I found I could see the piston tops better, and there were a lot of clear signs of rust, but also a lot of areas especially on Cylinder 4 were the carbon deposits had flaked off and you could see surface rust in the gaps. I think the car had sat around for a long time, probably in the damp with the valves partially open and the piston tops have suffered for it, they are pretty messy and I wonder if the slightly higher readings relates to the deposits and rust causing an increase in the compression? does that sound feasible ?

Piston 1
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quite a lot of surface corrosion.

Piston 2
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Close up and then pulled back, you can see the pitting on the surface on the first pic from the corrosion.

Piston 3
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obvious flaking of the carbon deposits

Piston 4
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So they all look pretty messy but the cylinder walls look clean from what I can see and the compression is good, I am thinking for the sake of £60 I can get a full gasket kit and replace not only the HG but also the valve stem seals, the exhaust and inlet, and just about any other seal o-ring seal or gasket needed involved in taking the head off. I can get a spring compressor kit with tools for the valve stem oil seals for about £20, a tin of grinding paste and some valve grinding sticks for about a tenner and then I would probably want a new cambelt, water pump, head bolts and a cam locking kit, so all in probably £200 plus regular service items...... if the compression is good, then is it worth spending the money ?
 
I think you are correct to say the vehicle standing around being the main cause Andy, personally I think the compressions are quite fair for an older vehicle and would be tempted just to use it as it is, if it wasn't for that debris you found originally. You may get away with it , but in the back of your mind will be what happens if something fails.
In an ideal World I would pull the engine out, do as you suggest with the top end, but in addition hone the cylinder bores and fit new ring piston rings and main and big end shells along with all the gaskets. The problem is where do you stop and what your intended use, if only using local and maybe occasional shows is one thing, touring Europe?:)
 
I'd be 50-50 on just running it for a while and taking the head off. The rust and soot will probably burn off when it's running, depends your long term plans for it.
 
I think I am happy to take the head off and clean up the head and all of those parts of the engine, I fear if I start taking the bottom end apart then I am going to get into having to replace the Pistons which are not easy to get for this engine, and are rather expensive, another £200 odd on top of doing everything else, the prices start to get well out of hand.

At least if I do the top end, and my intention is to replace the sump and check at least do a visual inspection on the bottom end and clean up everything that is visible.

Taking off the head and looking at the pistons will give me a good idea if it's scrap or not.
 
Andy messaged me and asked if I'd like to contribute here. I've just read the post through (recent family events have meant I've not been on the forum much - but I'm getting back to normal now)

The first obvious observation is that the guts of the engine looks very dirty with a lot of baked on - so hard and crust - gunge. My immediate thoughts on that is don't use a powerful engine flush. Hard baked deposits are likely to be loosened and find their way into parts of the engine where they won't be welcome - for instance restricted oil ways, relief valves, hydraulic tappets, etc etc. much better to do frequent oil changes for a while with some good runs in the country to get things nice and hot. The deposits are likely to be slowly dissolved by the detergents in the oil and collected in the filter (of course you'll change the filter each time when doing the oil.

There have been so many knowledgeable people - Bugsy, vexorg, s130, yourself Andy, Steven in the north east and Charlie, in fact all the usual people I would have expected to be attracted to a thread like this - that I think they've covered pretty much all the bases. However I'll have a go just in case something I say appeals?

The fact that the "foreigner" has departed gets rid of one problem. Strange it wasn't magnetic wasn't it. The obvious thought would be that it was part of a top ring land from the piston - which would be aluminium so not magnetic - but your images don't support that and you say you can't see any damage.

The top of the pistons are pretty dirty with carbon aren't they, which might indicate a lot of short trip useage? This coupled with infrequent oil changes would seem to be be supported by the general dirty state of the inside of the cam cover.

You refer to the top of the pistons having "surface rust"? Andy, I know you're deeply into all things to do with cars so I'm not trying to insult you by reminding all here that aluminium - from which most pistons are made - doesn't rust and aluminium oxidation looks white anyway. No, I believe the yellowish look - if that's what you're thinking - is due to oil varnishes and combustion deposits (the piston crowns look very "wet" anyway but that might be due to your "wet" compression test) I think the face of that piston looks a little "rough" but that's probably been due to the wee "foreigner" rattling around?

As, I think Bugsy commented? I think the compression figures look reasonable for an older engine. By the way, his advice on wet testing is good. Namely, squirt some oil in, let it dribble around for a couple of minutes and then, most importantly, place a rag over the plug'ole and spin the engine briefly on the starter before screwing the tester hose in. If you don't do this you may get oil into the tester hose and, in extreme cases where far too much oil has been introduced, you may ruin the gauge with too much compression or even hydraulic the engine.

Which leaves us with the puzzle of the varying compressions obtained on separate tests on that No2 cylinder. A sticking valve or hydraulic lifter/tappet (whatever you like to call them?) - if it has hydraulic tappets - would be a good guess. The test you're doing is a compression test so, by it's very nature, is a dynamic test - You did check each time to see the throttle butterfly was open and there were no other obstructions to the incoming air? Variation in outcome might well be due to the butterfly being open on one test but closed on another? A valve not fully closing every time might be equally likely. Personally I think a cylinder leak test might be useful as it's a test done statically so if a valve is just slow to close due to a "gummy" deposit or tightness in a guide, it will be likely to close onto it's seat when left alone under the influence of the spring. Of course you need a source of compressed air and a leakdown tool to do this. I'm fortunate enough to have my own compressor and am able to borrow the tool from a friend. Quite a few years ago, when I was living and breathing cars almost 24 hours a day and risking divorce over it (Hillman Imps had an obsessive hold over me) I found I was needing the leakdown tool quite frequently and became embarrassed asking to borrow it all the time (Imps are famous for head gasket problems) so I made an adaptor from an old plug so I could inject compressed air into a cylinder:

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So with piston at TDC on the compression stroke (so both valves closed) you screw in the adaptor and connect the air line. But keep your fingers out of the way because if you aren't exactly at TDC the crank will turn. However, if you've got it right you can now stick a listening tube down the inlet, up the exhaust and into the oil filler. You really should hear no hissing from either the exhaust or inlet if the valves are sealing. You'll always hear hissing at the oil filler hole because no piston/ring seals perfectly. With experience you learn when the hiss is acceptable or excessive but probably better to check for piston blowby with the leakdown tool if you've not "got the ear". If you get a good result from the cylinder leak test but still get variable outcomes from the compression test then likely you've got a sticking valve/tappet.

Can't think of anything else right now but I'll come back on here if I do and keep following this thread anyway.

Good luck Andy, I think you're talking about taking the sump off? might be a good idea to have a look at the bottom end before deciding whether to take the head off - I'm thinking blocked up oil strainer, maybe little glittery bits in the oil and other possible "nasties". If the bottom end is ok and there's no obvious signs of head gasket problems I could be tempted to run it for a wee while, maybe a month or so, getting it well up to temperature each time and do a couple of oil changes. Then, if it's still not "happy" think some more about stripping the top end?
 
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