Tuning Performance intakes

[Lolabunnn]

How would people feel about plug and play intake kits? I'm considering making an itb kit that uses a 3d printed 2 part manifold and 1, 2, 3 or 4 stock fiat throttle bodies all run using the stock ecu and fuel injectors. Bigger and smoother intakes provide more horsepower from the significantly detuned 1.2 engines and they're found in 2wd and 4wd panda's as well as punto's and 500's. I've had a bit of a play around and I'm pretty sure the stock map can handle the added airflow and there's no maf sensor to restrict intake size or need an extra plenum and intake pipe meaning you can run trumpets and sock filters, a plate and foam panel filter or multiple smaller cone filters or just open trumpets if the panda is for track use

 

[koalar]

Are you sure that's where the restrictions are

120HP on engine dyno

Fair bit of work and a few grand done on the engine, compression, race cam different connecting rods and so on



It's not until the Evo @ 157HP which is bored and stroked on custom inlet and 4 throttle bodies


Probably over 4 figures spent, even the block is milled to lighten it

I don't see any gains myself just changing the inlet, the bottle neck is the Valves, lift and duration


I posted some rolling road back to back of the standard exhaust swapped for a decat and full race on a standard engine

From memory they were identical except for the last few hundred rpm which shows 3hp gain or well within the error of the rolling road, even if it was genuine it's not going to be any noticeable increase acceleration


I noticed you have the 4x4 these engines have different cams and throttle bodies and I suspect are tuned for more low down torque

 

[jrkitching]

How would people feel about plug and play intake kits

On a 1.2, fitting one would be a complete waste of time.

It might feel faster due to greater intake noise, but the chances of any meaningful performance gain are negligible.

And modifying the intake will make no difference whatsoever unless the car is being driven with your foot pressed hard on the floor. At anything other than full throttle, the airflow is controlled by a butterfly valve, the very purpose of which is to restrict the intake air.

 

[A3jeroen]

In my experience; what is referred to (by most people) as cold air intakes almost always suck in hot air and thus loosing power.

gr J

 

[Lolabunnn]

On a 1.2, fitting one would be a complete waste of time.

It might feel faster due to greater intake noise, but the chances of any meaningful performance gain are negligible.

And modifying the intake will make no difference whatsoever unless the car is being driven with your foot pressed hard on the floor. At anything other than full throttle, the airflow is controlled by a butterfly valve, the very purpose of which is to restrict the intake air.

The driving that I do, on the roads that I use require a lot of either full throttle or none at all, because the 4x4 pandas are tuned for torque rather than horsepower. The improved throttle response would definitely make a difference, paired with the larger camshaft from a 1.4 punto it'd allow for more air into the cylinders. Currently, the manifold and throttle body on the 4x4 1.2 is ridiculously small.

 

[Lolabunnn]

In my experience; what is referred to (by most people) as cold air intakes almost always suck in hot air and thus loosing power.

gr J

What I'm proposing would draw air from the back of the bonnet or the rear of the engine bay as apposed to the front and above the exhaust manifold like it draws from currently.

 

[Lolabunnn]

Are you sure that's where the restrictions are

120HP on engine dyno

View attachment 455280
Fair bit of work and a few grand done on the engine, compression, race cam different connecting rods and so on



It's not until the Evo @ 157HP which is bored and stroked on custom inlet and 4 throttle bodies


Probably over 4 figures spent, even the block is milled to lighten it



View attachment 455281



View attachment 455282View attachment 455283

I don't see any gains myself just changing the inlet, the bottle neck is the Valves, lift and duration


I posted some rolling road back to back of the standard exhaust swapped for a decat and full race on a standard engine

From memory they were identical except for the last few hundred rpm which shows 3hp gain or well within the error of the rolling road, even if it was genuine it's not going to be any noticeable increase acceleration


I noticed you have the 4x4 these engines have different cams and throttle bodies and I suspect are tuned for more low down torque

You're quite right, the 4x4 1.2 engines are tuned for low down torque but they still have the same architecture as much sportier engines. Ideally, my multi throttle idea would be paired with the cam from a 1.4 punto and the addition of more throttle bodies would increase airflow to the head to match the longer duration and higher lift from that cam. More air into the cylinders and as the stock map is quite flexible and adapts itself to suit, more fuel would be added to match. This whole idea is done to maximise the potential of the 1.2 engines as 100hp pandas and other fiat 1.4 engines seem to be in short supply, not to mention the fact that the 1.2 in my panda 4x4 is already fitted to the car and matches the 4x4 system well in terms of fitment in the car. I'm not exactly looking to engine swap but I'm trying to make the most responsive unit from my heavily detuned 1200 lump

 

[portland_bill]

What I'm proposing would draw air from the back of the bonnet or the rear of the engine bay as apposed to the front and above the exhaust manifold like it draws from currently.

The back of the engine bay is hot, therefore the air is less dense. The standard air intake draws air from above the radiator, through the front grille, so at ambient temperature. Drawing from the back of the engine bay will reduce power.
As said above, the restrictions are the valves and timing of them. The stock air intake is capable of flowing more air than the engine could ever demand, even with a partially blocked air filter. If a gain was so simple, it'd be there already.
Spend your time and money if you like, but adding power to one of the softest engines around is not that easy. Don't expect much more than different sounds and something pretty to look at when the bonnet is open.

 

[Johnspanda]

How would people feel about plug and play intake kits? I'm considering making an itb kit that uses a 3d printed 2 part manifold and 1, 2, 3 or 4 stock fiat throttle bodies all run using the stock ecu and fuel injectors. Bigger and smoother intakes provide more horsepower from the significantly detuned 1.2 engines and they're found in 2wd and 4wd panda's as well as punto's and 500's. I've had a bit of a play around and I'm pretty sure the stock map can handle the added airflow and there's no maf sensor to restrict intake size or need an extra plenum and intake pipe meaning you can run trumpets and sock filters, a plate and foam panel filter or multiple smaller cone filters or just open trumpets if the panda is for track use

Hi sounds good, I would be interested in doing something with my 4x4

 

[PuntoHowTo]

I think maybe design, print and test something before you start offering something.
you could get loads of people interested in it, only to lose interest or find out whatever you're proposing is not technically possible, or you get it exactly as planned and find for whatever reason that it does nothing to improve the performance.

Make something, show it works, then you actually have something to offer.

You talk about getting more horse power from the "significantly detuned" engine, and there is the main issue. You are only ever going to make it as good as the stock tune allows and in this case as you put it, it is significantly detuned, so any mods to the air intake system are unlikely to make any discernible difference.