Technical Panda Cross Suspension Arm Front Bolt

[mikerf]

Can anyone advise on how to get at the front bolt on the suspension arm on a 2015 Cross. A quick look under the car and i can see the ball joint pinch bolt and the rear crossmember bolt are both easy to get at but the front one seems inaccessible.

I guess I have to remove the skid plate but does this make this bolt easier to get at?

I think I'm correct in saying it's easier on standard Pandas but mine is a Cross. 4x4 might well be the same but I'm not sure.

Any help would be appreciated as it failed on this part and I need to get it re-tested asap. Got a new arm from Shop4parts btw. Great service.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

I’ll try and put a parts picture later [edit - see second reply below] , but in text only for now: to reach the front bolt, you need to remove the front, forward-facing ‘leg’ of the subframe. This is secured to the rest of the frame by two bolts underneath. The front end of that ‘leg’ connects to the cross beam behind the front bumper. Having removed this leg, the bolt securing the wishbone front pivot is accessed from the now open end of the subframe. So, yes, the under tray has to come off, and a fair bit more besides. Somewhere there is I think a previous post about this, with photos. The ‘search this forum’ search might find it. (Identical part and process on standard Panda, 4x4 and Cross model, by the way)

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

mikerf See if this helps (see the previous reply too which explains this). The red circle is around the location of the two bolts (removed in the diagram) that secure the front 'leg' of the subframe. One the 'leg' is removed, the bolt numbered '3' (towards the lower left of the diagram) is the one you need to remove -- the blue line shows that this passes through the front pivot of the wishbone, but is shown here as an exploded view. (In the second diagram below, the part numbered 10 is the front subframe leg – there is one on each side of the car but only one is shown here. The square plate on the front of this part is bolted to the cross beam behind the bumper, and the securing bolts mentioned above pass through the two round holes at the lower/right end of this part)

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Ah ha - I knew I seen this set of photos of how to do the job - but forgotten which site they were on. This sequence is for a Fiat 500, but the process is practically identical on the Panda: https://www.fiatworkshop.co.uk/Fiat_500_front_wishbone_removal.shtml

 

[Panda IIs]

mikerf While not proud of myself when replacing a lower suspension ball joint (therefore the whole wishbone) I found that it was fairly easy to bend the corner of the skid-plate downwards to get a socket on the bolt.

In my defence I would not have done this if it hadn't been evident that someone had been there and done that previously! This is a 4x4 so likely similar to yours?

 

[mikerf]

Hillhopper. Thank you so much for all that info. The pics clearly show the process. I had a good look underneath yesterday and can clearly see the parts you mention. The forward crossmember on the Cross also has the red tow hooks bolted to the front just for added inconvenience. It's pretty obvious the front bumper also has to come off first. Why do manufacturers make easy jobs so difficult? I though changing the rear disks on the Cross was a stupidly difficult job but all this work just to change a wishbone is just mental.

 

[mikerf]

Hi Panda II.

I've taken the sump guard off but can't see how that front bolt would be accessible. The chassis rail (Part 10 in Hillhoppers illustration) allows little more than a fingers worth of space plus it's a Torx bolt.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Hillhopper. Thank you so much for all that info. The pics clearly show the process. … I though changing the rear disks on the Cross was a stupidly difficult job but all this work just to change a wishbone is just mental.

The Fiat Workshop (where that photo sequence came from) show to time to do this job as 1.5 hours. For comparison they show 1hr5mins for the rear brakes. Both seem optimistic to me !

 

[mikerf]

Unless you have a team of F1 mechanics on standby then, yes, wildly optimistic.

Changing the rear disks was such a pain that I'd willingly pay a garage to do the job next time. Additionally, moving the hubs to get access to the calliper carriers upset the wheel sensors to the extent I was getting warning lights on the dash intermittently afterwards. It really shouldn't be that difficult.

 

[mikerf]

Looks like I don't have to take the whole bumper off. The lower front panel (the silver bit with the holes in it and which housed the DRL's) looks to be a separate moulding and, if I can get it off, would allow access to the 4 bolts that hold the front of the offending member.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Looks like I don't have to take the whole bumper off. The lower front panel (the silver bit with the holes in it and which housed the DRL's) looks to be a separate moulding and, if I can get it off, would allow access to the 4 bolts that hold the front of the offending member.

I have a hunch that silver panel is fitted to the back of the bumper though, so to access the fixings to remove that may mean removing the screws in at least the bottom edge of the main bumper?

As to why is it (the subframe) designed this way, the answer is in part so that in the event a minor bump, the removable front legs of the frame are sacrificial and can be replaced separate to the complete subframe. That though seems to assume a front end bump is more frequent that replacing the wishbone... several other cars have pretty similar set ups. My earlier (2005) 4x4 needed a new wishbone at some point, and there that bolt is less easy to reach as the front 'leg' wasn't separate. The bolt head snapped off, leaving the remains out of reach, and at one point there was talk of replacing the whole subframe! They found another way, but maybe, if others had the same issues, the newer arrangement is a better solution here.

Pete

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Unless you have a team of F1 mechanics on standby then, yes, wildly optimistic....

This place is actually not very far from me, and so I might try them out for my next service (the 36000 miles one)on my 4x4 MJ. They are nearer than any Fiat dealer, but maybe more familiar with the nuances of the car compared to the (very good but 'general') garage our other car goes to. (I know I didn't 'have to' use Fiat on the Panda from new, but you try making a warranty claim if you haven't )

 

[mikerf]

I fully understand the principle of the sacrificial front members but did they have to position them in a place that conceals a bolt that is likely to need to be undone on occasions. Had they extended the main subframe member further forward by about 25mm I'm sure it would have allowed a socket in.

Re the silver panel, I can see the securing screws in the very bottom and I can see 2 further screws facing downward that are accessible through the front grille (where you can see the bottom of the rad). I think the rest simply slips up under the upper part of of the main bumper moulding. I guess there might be a screw in the wheel arch to but haven't checked that yet. Obviously need to access the wheel arch to disconnect the DRL's.

If that place can change rear disks in 1.5 hrs., I'm impressed.

 

[Panda IIs]

This place is actually not very far from me, and so I might try them out for my next service (the 36000 miles one)on my 4x4 MJ. They are nearer than any Fiat dealer, but maybe more familiar with the nuances of the car compared to the (very good but 'general') garage our other car goes to. (I know I didn't 'have to' use Fiat on the Panda from new, but you try making a warranty claim if you haven't )

This is Jamie Porter of the Alfa Workshop; I would thoroughly recommend them and have used Jamie for the last 20+ years (living in SG14) for various Alfas and now my 4x4. Always fair and most helpful - how many garages do you know that give you a blow-by-blow instruction plus images on how to do their work?

I haven't had to use them recently but they used to have some very interesting courtesy cars available; GTV anyone?!

 

[mikerf]

Bit of a drive for me from Highland Scotland. I'm actually just 3 miles from where Top Gear did the Suzuki Ignis V Panda Cross test up that hill (mountain?) and pass it every day on my way to work.

It really is just a hill.