Styling osram nightbraker h4 led

[PuntoHowTo]

The actual text from the MOT guidance is here. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-ins...ectors-and-electrical-equipment#section-4-1-4
Note: there is no requirement to check for E-markings on lamps or their bulbs, only that the headlight beam pattern is correct. Using an LED bulb in any other light won’t fail an MOT either, so long as it ‘looks right’ when turned on - the test is only to confirm that the lights work. However, if you’re involved in an accident , insurers might not pay up if the lights are not correct… slim chance of that happening though.

That’s passenger cars so on technical grounds the police can take a car off the road for having bulbs that do not confirm to the law.
Whether or not the MOT inspector gives a damn is largely irrelevant on the front and as you say the insurance company might not be too happy if you crash into something you couldn’t see, with dodgy headlights.

I was more interested in bikes, I presume that they are still covered under the 1989 lighting regs?

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

That’s passenger cars so on technical grounds the police can take a car off the road for having bulbs that do not confirm to the law.
Whether or not the MOT inspector gives a damn is largely irrelevant on the front and as you say the insurance company might not be too happy if you crash into something you couldn’t see, with dodgy headlights.

I was more interested in bikes, I presume that they are still covered under the 1989 lighting regs?

Similar rules: here’s the bike test MOT guidelines https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-motorcycles

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Similar rules: here’s the bike test MOT guidelines https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-motorcycles

MOT regulations do not always reflect what is expected in Law.

I'e as you say MOT inspectors are not going around looking for E marks on everything fitted to a car.
I am sure that bikes also probably fall foul of the 1989 rules and regs on "incandescent" bulbs and you probably would be technically breaking some regulation if you fitted an LED bulb to an older model say 1990s motorcycle with OEM lights.

 

[g8rpi]

Interesting. That MOT rule would prevent you fitting a LED "lamp" to a post 1986 (filament original) headlight even if the lamp was E marked...
As has been said many times passing an MOT does not mean it is legal. The MOT is a safety test.

 

[kavinsanders87]

Unless the UK updates the The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 which you can probably guess from the year. has not been updated in a while.
Unfortunately LED bulbs will continue to technically illegal.

I say technically because the 1989 law sites the use of "incandescent bulbs" repeatedly and therefore by omission LEDs cannot be legal under those regulations.

when we were part of the EU, lighting regulations followed the type approval system and so cars that met type approval being manufactured with more modern lighting systems such as HID, LED and laser, were legal under type approval but there was still no law to make conversion to LEDs legal.

There are headlight units around for some cars that have been type approved and can be bought and fitted aftermarket such as Osram Xenarc headlights, but if you go look these up you'll find that they are very Very expensive and only cover a few models of highly popular cars.
There is another company called Vland who also make after market headlights cheaper for a host of different cars, with LED bulbs, however it is not clear if these have undergone type approval for use in the EU and they again have a limited range of models they cover which does not include Fiat but suggests they cater more to the US market (despite being a German company).

I imagine that italy has updated their vesion of our 1989 regulations, for us to do the same and for the government to make LED bulbs legal for use in any car they would have to (potentially) carefully set very specific rules on the construction of the bulbs and undertake some pretty stringent and costly testing to make sure the bulbs were/are compatible with a very broad range of cars.

I can't see Italy having gone to that extent, but in the UK that is potentially what would be needed, so they are very unlikely to do it.

Far easier to just let the manufacturers deal with it using the type approval system and the manufacturer's like it because it ties you in to buying costly genuine replacement bulbs from your nearest parts department.

I think that it is not that difficult to update the law with modern standards, they did it italy many times, and to be honest a modern country must update those rules and regulation every at lest 10 years. I posted a video of comparison between legal alogen h4 and legal osram , there is no comparison with the 2. led wins.

 

[g8rpi]

Was that a test with a headlamp beam tester and light meter of just subjective? Measuring a headlamp for compliance with regulations and standards is not trivial.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

I think that it is not that difficult to update the law with modern standards, they did it italy many times, and to be honest a modern country must update those rules and regulation every at lest 10 years.

Our current law for dealing with this is over 35 years old so you’re 10 year update clearly doesn’t work in the uk.

Secondly go and read the 1989 regulations it is not a a couple of sides of A4

 

[g8rpi]

Was that a test with a headlamp beam tester and light meter of just subjective? Measuring a headlamp for compliance with regulations and standards is not trivial.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Motorbikes of any age can legally use LED bulbs in the headlights

I think the very worst cases of dazzle seem to be bikes and this explains why. Little excuse as they must be able to tell their lights are not right. Understandable as bike lights not always the best. In fairness (ref Vexorg) the cars that dazzle badly seem not to be the premium marks but I have noted Nissans, X traisl and Cash Cows as being troublesome. Its the people with illegal bulbs fitted in inappropriate lights that are the real problem IMHO, though most LED car dazzle badly when traversing teh many unecessary speed humps strewn around.

 

[g8rpi]

Once again, not failing an MOT does not mean a motor vehicle is road legal and compliant with all legislation.
It just means that it passed a very specific safety inspection.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Once again, not failing an MOT does not mean a motor vehicle is road legal and compliant with all legislation.
It just means that it passed a very specific safety inspection.

Yes, I get that. But to reiterate, any car presenting with LED bulbs fitted to headlamps designed for halogen will be failed (unless registered prior to 1986), regardless of whether they would actually pass the alignment test.

 

[g8rpi]

That was mainly in response to the motorcycle comment. It seems the motorcycle MOT manual does not consider the use of LED replacement as grounds for failure. Hard to rationalise the inconsistency.
The RAC has raised concerns about this issue:

RAC calls for government action on headlight glare | RAC Drive

The RAC is calling on the Government to commission an independent study into the issue of headlight glare after new research found the problem is getting worse.

www.rac.co.uk

 

[PuntoHowTo]

That was mainly in response to the motorcycle comment. It seems the motorcycle MOT manual does not consider the use of LED replacement as grounds for failure. Hard to rationalise the inconsistency.
The RAC has raised concerns about this issue:

RAC calls for government action on headlight glare | RAC Drive

The RAC is calling on the Government to commission an independent study into the issue of headlight glare after new research found the problem is getting worse.

www.rac.co.uk

Is that in the standard headlights/lamps though? There are loads of aftermarket lamps and lights for bikes which conform to standards, but it involves the whole lamp being replaced? I’d be surprised if changing the bulbs to LED units which are almost always labelled not legal for road use, would be allowed, if not considered under the mot I’m sure they still fall foul of the 89 lighting regs, so if you have an unhappy policeman you could still find yourself in bother.

 

[kavinsanders87]

Our current law for dealing with this is over 35 years old so you’re 10 year update clearly doesn’t work in the uk.

Secondly go and read the 1989 regulations it is not a a couple of sides of A4

1. Amendment – A formal change or addition to a law or legal document to address new circumstances.
2. Revision – A general term for modifying laws, typically implying a review and adjustment to fit current needs.
3. Law reform – A more comprehensive term for the ongoing process of updating laws to align with societal changes.
4. Regulatory adjustment – When the change involves altering regulations rather than fundamental laws.

this is what I am saying. all the countries does those once a while especailly during social network revolution and with AI now. it is a quite simple process (and necessary) compared with write a law from beginning. I think the "will" is missing . considering that this law does not apply for retro fitting led in car registered before 1989 , it is not about road safety but about broken bureaucracy.

Road safety it is a serious thing and I think in UK there is a big problem with road safety and road condition.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

it is not about road safety but about broken bureaucracy.

Exactly my point, they are unlikely to update the laws or should I say back date the laws to suit a few very old cars.

We have laws governing the use of LED/HID/matrix/laser lights on newer cars why do we need to start messing around changing laws that do an adequate job

Road safety it is a serious thing and I think in UK there is a big problem with road safety

what is the “big” problem.

I’m not saying accidents don’t happen but the uk roads are not exactly Mumbai and really quite safe compared to most

Changing a law on headlights is not going to do anything to fill some potholes. So I don’t see the laws changing any time soon, what we have currently is fit for purpose.