Technical Oil Grade ??

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Technical Oil Grade ??

Yes you are a marketting persons dream, and must have more money than sence.:nutter:

Its the specs that important not the name. I used anything I could fine in my Uno, Asda, Wilkos, Lidl, Coma, anything as long as it was the correct spec and grade and that was still going strong at 150,000 miles plus.
 
Sorry Liam, I'm in agreement really with madrat on this one.

Firstly, Asda won't be making the oil, it will undoubtedly be some well known company with a pretty decent pedigree in the oil industry. Asda are clearly just marketing it under their own brand name. Therefore, the oil is undoubtedly absolutely fine for normal road vehicle use.

I personally wouldn't put the Asda oil in, because it's not 5w40, the spec recommended by Fiat for our 1.2 POP. As I've said in previous posts, once our warranty runs out, it will most likely be Fuchs or Q8 that goes in our engine and there is nothing wrong with their oils.
 
Yes you are a marketting persons dream, and must have more money than sence.:nutter:

Its the specs that important not the name. I used anything I could fine in my Uno, Asda, Wilkos, Lidl, Coma, anything as long as it was the correct spec and grade and that was still going strong at 150,000 miles plus.

Should have said its a Multijet and that uses 5w30

So if the specs are important why are you considering the ASDA oil since it is has not got the ACEA C2 spec for diesel as previously posted.:confused:

The petrol uses the ACEA C3 spec and that needs 5w40.

The ASDA oil does not suit the diesel (wrong ACEA spec) or the petrol in the 500 (wrong viscosity) but it might suit a US spec F500 MA (click here).
 
So if the specs are important why are you considering the ASDA oil since it is has not got the ACEA C2 spec for diesel as previously posted.:confused:

The petrol uses the ACEA C3 spec and that needs 5w40.

The ASDA oil does not suit the diesel (wrong ACEA spec) or the petrol in the 500 (wrong viscosity) but it might suit a US spec F500 MA (click here).

I'm pretty sure that the C3 standard means that it complies with the C2 standard. Could be wrong of course :)
 
I'm pretty sure that the C3 standard means that it complies with the C2 standard. Could be wrong of course :)

I don't think things are quite that simple. The specs are different, rather than one being better than the other.

Cars with the latest emissions control devices cannot tolerate the sulphated ash, phosphorus and sulphur content of earlier specifications & the challenge to the oil designers is to find ways of lowering the levels of these additives without compromising the performance of the oil.

In the old days, oil companies could get adequate performance from a cheap base mineral oil by chucking in a heap of additives (think Castrol GTX), but catalytic converters, lambda sensors, DPF's & what-have you would be quickly poisoned by this type of oil. Synthetics can achieve similar or better performance with a much lower level of additives because the base oil is so much more consistent & durable.

Many of the recent developments have been to find ways of maintaining oil performance whilst reducing the level of traditional additives by using alternative wear-reducing compounds, but not all of these are suitable for older engines, which is why we have such a plethora of different specifications today.

In reply to all those folks who've run xyz oil for huge mileages without blowing up their engine, I don't think the issue is so much about mechanical wear as about protecting all the hi-tech devices a modern engine needs to achieve its economy & emissions performance. Using the wrong oil probably won't wreck the bearings, but you just might find you need to fork out for a new DPF/cat/lambda sensor or whatever when you next visit an MOT station.

Unless you want to spend a huge amount of time researching the subject in great depth AND are prepared to use your car as an experimental vehicle, I'd suggest simply sticking to the specification (though not necessarily the brand) given by the manufacturer.
 
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I don't think things are quite that simple. The specs are different, rather than one being better than the other.

Cars with the latest emissions control devices cannot tolerate the sulphated ash, phosphorus and sulphur content of earlier specifications & the challenge to the oil designers is to find ways of lowering the levels of these additives without compromising the performance of the oil.

http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/lubrizol/EOACEA2009/RPTOOL2010Dep/rp/pc/index.html

Seems the difference is fuel economy, both C2 and C3 oils are both mid saps oils :)
 
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Yes you are a marketting persons dream, and must have more money than sence.:nutter:

I wish i did have more money than sence, though if i did i'd be riding round in something worth alot more than a 2004 Stilo! If it was hundreds of ££'s difference for Selenia then i'd probably do without, but when a tank of fuel is nearly £80 every fortnight, an extra £20 over the cheaper brand oil once every 12 months it's hardly worth losing sleep over.

Sorry Liam, I'm in agreement really with madrat on this one.

Firstly, Asda won't be making the oil, it will undoubtedly be some well known company with a pretty decent pedigree in the oil industry. Asda are clearly just marketing it under their own brand name. Therefore, the oil is undoubtedly absolutely fine for normal road vehicle use.

I personally wouldn't put the Asda oil in, because it's not 5w40, the spec recommended by Fiat for our 1.2 POP. As I've said in previous posts, once our warranty runs out, it will most likely be Fuchs or Q8 that goes in our engine and there is nothing wrong with their oils.

Don't apologise, each to their own. I just don't see why people are happy to spend thousands on a new car, some people as much as every 2-3 years, and then do their damndest to save £20 on oil. By all means shop around for a good deal on the Service, as we all know Fiats Fixed Price servicing is anything but fixed, but when it comes down to £20 difference for a cheaper oil or Selenia, i'd rather just stick to a brand that i know :)

In reply to all those folks who've run xyz oil for huge mileages without blowing up their engine, I don't think the issue is so much about mechanical wear as about protecting all the hi-tech devices a modern engine needs to achieve its economy & emissions performance. Using the wrong oil probably won't wreck the bearings, but you just might find you need to fork out for a new DPF/cat/lambda sensor or whatever when you next visit an MOT station.

Unless you want to spend a huge amount of time researching the subject in great depth AND are prepared to use your car as an experimental vehicle, I'd suggest simply sticking to the specification (though not necessarily the brand) given by the manufacturer.

Pretty much my thoughts aswell :slayer: Why muck about experimenting with your car when you can just stick in the oil that's recommended & enjoy driving it. I could probably spend days reading up about oils & their ingredients and maybe be abit wiser on the subject than i am currently, but really, for a £20 saving (if that) over a 12 month period (i change the oil once a year/12,000 miles) i really don't have the inclination & can think of plenty of ways to save far more than £20 without boring myself half to death in the process!
 
Yes you are a marketting persons dream, and must have more money than sence.:nutter:

I didn't address the nutter symbol in my last posting to see how thing unfolded but all I can say is the JTD_Liam is a bigger man than me. I'm not too sure how I would have reacted.:eek:

http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/lubrizol/EOACEA2009/RPTOOL2010Dep/rp/pc/index.html

Seems the difference is fuel economy, both C2 and C3 oils are both mid saps oils :)

Looking at JR's 1.5% economy improvement on a £1,500 fuel spend in the year that gives a saving of £22 which is difference in price between an ASDA oil & a recommended 'branded' oil. So it would appear that the C3 spec could suit despite not having the FIAT 9.55535-S1 approval spec. In trying to save money you can end up spending more money after all.:D

And engine wear - the C2 spec allows for about 30% more wear for a 1.5% improvement in fuel economy. As you say, SAPS limits are the same for C2/C3. More details here.

My previous comments were about oil generally, rather than the specific differences between C2/C3 :).

I wonder if the 30% more wear would apply to a Diesel using a ACEA C2 only spec but could see how the petrol engine which needs a C3 for protection could suffer 30% wear rate 'dropping' to an Economy C2 only spec.

Why muck about experimenting with your car when you can just stick in the oil that's recommended & enjoy driving it.

Have noticed that as individuals we're now questioning advise being given by 'experts' and I for one have just stopped short of self medicating :). But after the 'bit' of joint input on this thread I'm starting to think you can do better than the Selenia oil.;)

If I was buying oil now for the OHs diesel I would be looking for C2 for the economy, C3 for additional engine protection (not required by Fiat) and the Fiat approval spec of FIAT 9.55535-S1 to keep the warranty guys happy. Outside the 3 year 'warranty' there might even be a 'goodwill' period. If BMW can give that on a 1997 2.5L engine I would certainly push for it if an engine blew up in the 4th year or 5th year once it had not been tinkered with.

Here are my inputs and I've included one from Castrol on a Toyota Avensis but might be of interest to the remaining die-hards.:eek:

If you go on-line looking for a recommendation from OPIE & Castrol - both re-direct you to an on-line request on the Multi-jet and that applies to the 500, Panda, MiTo, etc. Note too that the DPF on these cars has a track history so using the WRONG oil is a false economy.

These are the oils which are 5w30 & ACEA C2 which are listed on OPIE…
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-791-acea-c2.aspx#Filter=[EntityIDs=@(53)@*ava=0[/COLOR]]

OIL that meets ACEA C2 spec and are as cheap as possible…
1L going cheap ! You only need 3L for the MJ 1.3 =>£31 for 3L
1L TITAN GT1 PRO C-2 5W-30
ACEA C2
ACEA A5,B5
ACEA A1,B1
API SL/CF
FIAT 9.55535-S1
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-978-fuchs-titan-gt1-pro-c-2-5w-30-synthetic-engine-oil-for-the-latest-peugeot-citroen-vehicles.aspx

The OILMAN on the AF has a particular ‘fondness’ for Fuchs Titan Pro and I would be asking him for an 'expert' recommendation when the time comes.:idea:
Shell Helix Ultra Extra 5W-30
ACEA:C2
ACEA C3 BINGO !! Wear Protection
Fiat - Meets the requirements of Fiat 9.5535 S1
Bargain £37.50. Order 2x5L which gives 3 oil changes => £25 per oil change.
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-68973-shell-helix-ultra-extra-5w-30-premium-fully-synthetic-engine-oil.aspx

Mobile 5W30 ESP as previously recommended with a C2 & C3 would now appear to be another excellent oil given the wear protection capability from the ‘C3’ but it does not have the Fiat approval spec of FIAT 9.55535-S1 so I wouldn't use it within the warranty period.

Will any other oil suit – one that is readily available & might be 'cheap' ?
IF there was no DPF on the 500 1.3 MJ either because it was removed or it as an earlier model and it wasn’t fitted (e.g. Mito ’08 6 speed 1.3MJ hasn’t got one) - you could consider using an oil like the Castrol Magnatec 5w30 at £25. This B1 oil has conventional ash content but it would clog up a Fiat DPF which requires a low ash oil.
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-754-castrol-magnatec-5w-30-a1-fully-synthetic-engine-oil-recommended-by-ford.aspx
The Toyota Avensis diesel has the same specified oil as the Fiat MJ. One owner
was looking to use Castrol Edge (which is ACEA C3) was told that it was NOT suitable. Magnetec was suggested as an alternative and here is his request…

Well at last I had a reply from Castrol about there EDGE oil recommendation. I asked the question "Why after putting my cars reg into your oil finder chart does it say that EDGE oil is okay for a car that has a DPF when it doesn't meet the C2 spec as per my owners manual recommendation?"
I contacted OPIE oils and after some research they came back and told me that Castrol EDGE 5w-30 was not the correct spec for a car with a DPF... Hence the reason why I went for the Mobil 1 ESP as both Castrol and Mobil meet the VW's 507 00 spec, but only the ESP meet the C2 spec.
This was the response from Castrol...

Thank you for your e-mail. Apologies for the delay in replying.
You are correct that the preferred oil for Toyotas such as your Avensis fitted with diesel particulate filters (DPF)is a 5W-30 meeting the ACEA C2 specification, however Toyota also accepted a 5W-30 engine oil meeting the ACEA B1 specification - even though this second type of oil is not what is called low ash, the normal requirement for DPF equipped vehicles.
We have made the recommendations you have seen on the website because the ACEA C2 specification is equal to the ACEA C3 specification in terms of DPF compatibility. Both specifications use the same chemical limits which define them as low ash oils. The difference between the two is that the C2 specification includes a more severe fuel economy requirement than the C3 specification. Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 has demonstrated this fuel economy capability and so can claim C2 and C3, whereas Castrol Edge 5W-30, which is formulated more towards engine protection than fuel economy, has not demonstrated the fuel economy benefit and so claims C3 only.

Because of the particular design of Toyota's DPF system, it is actually more tolerant of the type of engine oil used than some other manufacturer's vehicles, this is why Toyota accept the use of a conventional (i.e. high ash) oil meeting the ACEA B1 specification if a 5W-30 low ash oil is not readily available. This explains why our secondary recommendation on the website is Castrol Magnatec 5W-30 A1 which meets the ACEA B1 specification.

I hope this explanation reassures you that our recommendations are based on sound interpretation of the ACEA specifications along with Toyota's requirements and that anyone following our recommendations will not compromise the reliability of their vehicle.

Please contact us again should you require any further information.
 
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Lets not forget 1 very important point, No one is going to recommend using the asda oil because no one other than asda is able to sell it. The important think is that it meets or betters the spec needed which it dose and is the correct grade. For me thats good enough. :slayer:
 
At the end of the day, as long as it meets spec for the Multijet, low ash etc. I suspect that there really won't be any problem with this oil. Only 'brand conditioning' will preclude some from buying it and the fact that some owners vehicles will be under manufacturer warranty and under Fiat's servicing regime.
 
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