Technical Non starter

[johnpu]

please can some one help, I have a 2003 ducato 2.8
I do no have 5 to battery voltage to the crankshaft sensor only 2.5v
Checked the fuses in the engine bay

 

[Communicator]

Hi John,

Please can you confirm vehicle model? Is it an x230, or an x244? If not known check VIN which will be in registration document. Commencing ZFA230....., or ZFA244...... Also on 244 model reverse is next to first gear.
How are you checking the crankshaft sensor? It is hidden away at the rear of the engine.
My understanding is that the crankshaft sensor is self generating, as it is only a two wire device.
Also to help in selecting the correct diagrams, does your engine have EGR, and does it have a plastic or metal bodied oil filter (probably the latter.)

 

[johnpu]

Hi,
Thank you for your reply.
The model is ZFA244
The connection for the sensor is on top of the engine on the right side, and it has 3 wires.

Black Earth
White Signal to the ECU
Red Power 5v to battery voltage, but I only have 2.5v, so I need to know where it gets its power from

No EGR and the fuel filter is a metal one, thanks again

 

[Communicator]

Hi,
Thank you for your reply.
The model is ZFA244
The connection for the sensor is on top of the engine on the right side, and it has 3 wires.

Black Earth
White Signal to the ECU
Red Power 5v to battery voltage, but I only have 2.5v, so I need to know where it gets its power from

No EGR and the fuel filter is a metal one, thanks again

The sensor that you are describing is the camshaft sensor. It is connected directly to the ECU. The sensor is used to determine the stroke, and is only used when starting the engine. The wire colours that you quote do not match those on the attached diagram, but Fiat are reputed to deviate from stated colours in some parts of the vehicle.

For semsor connections see attached annoted copy of Fiat eLearn diagram E5050-2b. The sensor is K047, which may be found towards the lower LHS corner of the diagram.

What is the source for the power supply to the sensor being 5V? Is this reading with sensor connected?

If you have a Bosch part number, then try an internet search. I was able to download specs for the manifold pressure sensor using that method.

The air gap on both camshaft, and crankshaft sensors is quoted as 0.8 to 1.5mm, but that on the camshaft sensor is stated as being without adjustment.

I rember reading a mention of some camshaft sensors being fitted too low in relation to the camshaft. Fiat supplied packing washers to correct the fault.





























































































































































2b

 

[johnpu]

Hi, thank you for the wiring diagrams.

it is the crankshaft sensor wires that i am looking for, it is bolted to the rear of the engine block and gearbox and gets it signal from the flywheel
I have changed it for a new one, the diagnostic code said it was not working, and it looks like it is the low power getting to it, ie 2.5v
My autodata is showing the test on the wires disconnected
sensor KO46 to ECU, pins 99 red, 100 white 101 black
As i said, only 2.5v from the red wire
It looks like the ECU is only giving me the 2.5v, what do you think !!!
Thank again for you reply

 

[Communicator]

Hi, thank you for the wiring diagrams.

it is the crankshaft sensor wires that i am looking for, it is bolted to the rear of the engine block and gearbox and gets it signal from the flywheel
I have changed it for a new one, the diagnostic code said it was not working, and it looks like it is the low power getting to it, ie 2.5v
My autodata is showing the test on the wires disconnected
sensor KO46 to ECU, pins 99 red, 100 white 101 black
As i said, only 2.5v from the red wire
It looks like the ECU is only giving me the 2.5v, what do you think !!!
Thank again for you reply

Perhaps luckily for me, I have never had cause to check the crank sensor. My understanding is that it is a two wire device, with screened cable. Active cores are red and white. Being electromagnetic in operation, It may not require a supply, but I could be wrong. There is an operational description of the sensor under the heading "ENGINE RPM SENSOR" in attached extract from eLearn, but no data suitable for testing.

Edit. A useful check for the crankshaft sensor, is to observe the rpm indicator while cranking the engine. If indicator lifts off zero, then it would suggest that pulses are being received from the sensor.

 

[johnpu]

Thanks,
Is it only pin 58 on the ECU that powers it UP the ECU
Supply from ignition switch via Fuse 16 7.5a supply's ECU/ pin 58.. fuse 16 is immobilizer.
removed fuse 16 and no power to pin 99 red crank sensor wire
The immobilizer lock on the dash is going out when key is turned on and the low pressure fuel pump is pumping, engine cranks ok

What is E4010, there are 3 of them !!!

Where does pin 101 go on the ECU to crank senser wire no 3, black / earth

 

[Communicator]

Thanks,
Is it only pin 58 on the ECU that powers it UP the ECU
Supply from ignition switch via Fuse 16 7.5a supply's ECU/ pin 58.. fuse 16 is immobilizer.
removed fuse 16 and no power to pin 99 red crank sensor wire
The immobilizer lock on the dash is going out when key is turned on and the low pressure fuel pump is pumping, engine cranks ok

What is E4010, there are 3 of them !!!

Where does pin 101 go on the ECU to crank senser wire no 3, black / earth

Pin 58 on the ECU drawing is my addition. The connection is shown on the immobiliser diagram E7010. Part of the ECU has to be powered to exchange codes with the immobiliser. To paraphase eLearn, once that has been completed with recognised key, Main Injection Relay T09 is operated enabling injection.

E4010 is instrument panel, two connections for fuel gauge, and one for speedometer from F11 Secondary Sevices. (That large gaggle of parallel connections, of which there were a few more, but not applicable. e.g Heat Flange cold sterting device.

I would expect pin B101 on ECU to be an earth connection. The designers have earthed both ends of the screen. Not always a good idea, as current can then flow in the screen, with possible problems.

 

[johnpu]

I will do more testing on the wires and pins in the engine fuse box and injector wires, I think i have a better understanding of the system, (I think)
I just looked at autodata again and down the bottom of the page it says to test the crank sensor wires connected and engine turning over, so i will try it
the camper is at a friends house about 12 miles away, i will go up on the weekend
Thanks again for the wiring diagrams and all of the help you have given me, i have been a mechanic for 54 years, but as you can see i do not know every thing. I have learned a lot from you, thanks
I will get back to you after the weekend
Thanks again for spending your time

 

[johnpu]

Had a look at the rev counter when using easy start and it does not move
Checked the voltage to the crank sensor when the engine was running on easy start, still 2.5v
Looked at the codes and got P1320 Revolution Sensor ( crankshaft ) sensor
So next move is to find the engine ECU, Can someone help where is the ENGINE ECU

 

[Communicator]

Had a look at the rev counter when using easy start and it does not move
Checked the voltage to the crank sensor when the engine was running on easy start, still 2.5v
Looked at the codes and got P1320 Revolution Sensor ( crankshaft ) sensor
So next move is to find the engine ECU, Can someone help where is the ENGINE ECU

LHS inner wing near air filter.

Edit to attach photo of mine with black cover removed. Object at LHS of attached photo is one of air filter top cover fifing screws.

 

[johnpu]

Thanks you again, I will remove it and have a look at the connections and the volts coming into it, thanks

 

[Communicator]

Thanks you again, I will remove it and have a look at the connections and the volts coming into it, thanks

@johnpu The attached pinout may help. Source is eLearn, but the corrections are mine.