Technical New Fiat 500 Twinair electrical woes.

[MikeXL]

Hello, new member here!

My wife and I purchased a brand new Fiat 500 Twin Air two weeks back from Fiat here in our town. We've taken it out for a couple of long trips and have almost done 500 miles on it already. Awesome car and we love it very much. We drove it straight out from the shop.

But last week I sent it back to Fiat as the "Start & Stop" function wouldn't work. It also showed the yellow triangle with the exclamation mark.

We took it in and they said that the battery that was in it couldn't hold a charge over 80 percent and that was why. They fitted the car with a brand new battery, checked and confirmed everything was O.K. (Last thursday).

Since yesterday the yellow warning light started showing up again. I switched the engine off and on and it went away, until today. Today it has been going on and staying on whenever I started the car.

Just came home from town (we live outside of town) and during our ride, I felt a loss of power from the engine and the display stated that "Start & Stop" was currently unavailable. Then for 3-4 seconds, nothing happened when I put the pedal down. The car just de-accellerated until those seconds were up and it started then again to drive normally, although "Start & Stop" was still disabled.

When we came home I shut the car down and started it again with no problems.

Has this been a common problem with the 500? I don't know what to tell the dealer as we just had it in and the car is 2 weeks old. I'm a bit worried as in a month time we're using this car on our honeymoon and from what I gathered from my experience today, I'm a bit worried that the car might break down in the middle of nowhere with a gas pedal not responding resulting in a dead car (loss of power perhaps).

Thanks for any help you can provide

Edit: Thread no. 500 in the forum

 

[simon willgress]

I had this and they replaced a coil pack.

I still have on the odd occasion when stationary in a car park and stop start has cut in, engine restarts then a minute later stalls and says stop start not available.

Since the coil pack being replaced its not lost power.

Covered our first 10k this week an it's been the only glitch so far!

 

[chas379]

I had this and they replaced a coil pack.

I still have on the odd occasion when stationary in a car park and stop start has cut in, engine restarts then a minute later stalls and says stop start not available.

Since the coil pack being replaced its not lost power.

Covered our first 10k this week an it's been the only glitch so far!

I had this problem with my TA Lounge last year and when coil packs were replaced all went well

 

[MikeXL]

Battery that can't hold a charge over 80% and busted coil packs on a new car. Should I be worried? I'm going to give Fiat a call tomorrow.

 

[T14086]

Battery that can't hold a charge over 80% and busted coil packs on a new car. Should I be worried? I'm going to give Fiat a call tomorrow.

I am suspect of the battery however you got a brand new one so cant complain and it is not unusual for coil packs to fail (renault/ford anyone?) initially so stop worrying and enjoy the car...better than the countless recalls from toyota/nissan etc

 

[MikeXL]

Alright, thanks for the answer It's my first new car so, a bit excited for the 500 and a bit nervous when this happens.

 

[TrevC]

Mike - hope you get your problem sorted. I believe 500s are generally reliable when new, although there are reports on this forum of some components degrading or failing after 3 years or so. My TA Lounge is now just over 2 years old with 20,000 miles on it, and I've has no reliability issues so far. A friend has the Twinair model which is a bit younger but has done more miles, same story with him. Hopefully you'll have the same experience when your current problem is sorted.

 

[varesecrazy]

Battery that can't hold a charge over 80% and busted coil packs on a new car. Should I be worried? I'm going to give Fiat a call tomorrow.

unless you had a personal order from the factory - your car could have sat in a yard for months,
that's what kills the battery - mine is the same 2 months old -,

coil packs are wear + tear items,
some failures reported due to overheating..,

mine has been fine so far @ 2500 miles,

one MAJOR thing.. keep any eye on the engine oil levels - !!
Charlie

 

[jrkitching]

coil packs are wear + tear items,

a properly designed, well-engineered coil pack should last the life of the car.

Unfortunately the early TA coil packs weren't fit for purpose, which is why they were recalled.

Prematurely failing batteries are normally down to improper storage (the battery should be disconnected & fully charged before storing the car).

These issues are commonly reported on new 500's - the OP is unlucky to have had both happen at same time.

If properly fixed, there's no reason why the car won't go on to give perfectly good service without giving any further trouble - but I'd question whether it's acceptable for a new car to be delivered with the number of faults that are regularly reported here.

 

[simon willgress]

unless you had a personal order from the factory - your car could have sat in a yard for months,
that's what kills the battery - mine is the same 2 months old -,

coil packs are wear + tear items,
some failures reported due to overheating..,

mine has been fine so far @ 2500 miles,

one MAJOR thing.. keep any eye on the engine oil levels - !!
Charlie

Have you had a problem with oil consumption?
We have covered 10k and it hasn't used a drop! :/

 

[jrkitching]

Have you had a problem with oil consumption?
We have covered 10k and it hasn't used a drop! :/

Some have, some haven't.

Any car, whatever the make, needs regular oil level monitoring. It should be checked at least as often as you fill up with fuel.

Some TA owners have reported initial oil consumption of as much as 1 ltr every 1000 miles .

The way the car is run in has a significant bearing on long-term oil consumption. It's been covered here several times before.

 

[simon willgress]

Some have, some haven't.

Any car, whatever the make, needs regular oil level monitoring. It should be checked at least as often as you fill up with fuel.

Some TA owners have reported initial oil consumption of as much as 1 ltr every 1000 miles .

The way the car is run in has a significant bearing on long-term oil consumption. It's been covered here several times before.

1lt per 1000 miles
The engine only holds 3.5ltrs.

I'm glad I ran mine in correctly, I think that's why he also returns such good milage.
I am astonished at the oil consumption, but then I don't understand people who aren't mechanically sympathetic.

 

[MikeXL]

First of all, I want to say thank you all for the help and tips about this issue. It's great to see so many get involved!

Today I drove out to Fiat and explained to them about the power loss. They hooked it up with a diagnostics pad, but the mechanic couldn't find any messages or faults in the system, so he took it out for a short drive.

He came back and checked the system again. No faults. He did however, tell me that a new owner on a brand new Fiat 500 Twin Air had just come in with seemingly the same issues as me and it was indeed the Coil Pack that needed replacement. There were also no faults or messages about it in the system of the car, so the mechanic figured that it might be the coil pack. They ordered a new coil pack, and as they did they told me that if this happens again, *DON'T* shut down the engine, but drive straight out to them.

I drove the car away and filled it with petrol. Less than an hour later I experienced power loss. Car lost engine power and then resumed after a couple of seconds. I thought about what the mechanic had said and drove straight towards Fiat, even though I knew that they had already ordered a new Coil Pack.

On my way to Fiat, the same thing happened again, going 35 MPH in third gear. General failure light was showing, and the display told me that Start & Stop was unavailable. I pulled into the parking lot of Fiat, went in and said that the car is on so now was the chance to check it out. I also explained what had happened when I was driving.

The mechanic went outside with the diagnostics machine and behold... no errors, no messages, even though the General failure light and the Start & Stop light was on. It was a bit confusing. He took it out for a new spin and at the same time they (Garage manager) reconfirmed that it looked like it might be the coil pack.

My wife and I waited for some time until he returned and he drove it straight into the garage. The workshop manager came up to us and told us that it wasn't the Coil Pack. They were unsure about what it was. He told us that we could borrow the new Fiat Panda in the meantime as the mechanic would have to work overtime to figure out what it was.

As we walked into the garage to gather our things from the 500, he told us that "this is an unacceptable behaviour for a new car and we'll get to the bottom of this. You're not supposed to buy a new car and experience this. It is totally unacceptable". So, from what I gathered from the look on his face and the way he exclaimed that message to us plus that the mechanic just drove it straight into the garage, he had experienced the same thing when he was out driving. The two power losses I experienced were in a drive range of about 4 miles, and he was gone for a while so he must have experienced it.

All in all it was a positive experience with Fiat. They acknowledged that something is wrong and that they are determined to fix it, so we'll wait and see. Either way, the new Fiat Panda is great and we have a car that we can use in the meantime. We're hoping for the best. I'll post again when I know more.

PS: One thing I forgot to mention is that the car loses all engine power when hitting 4k RPM. Dumb me thought it might be the turbo cutting or something. I told the mechanic that and he told me "That's weird". I don't drive the car hard but we have some steep hills here with traffic and sometimes I need to hit nearly 4k or right above 3.5k RPM to move forward fast enough and get enough power. I'm usually pretty easy on the throttle and I don't rev it. I usually drive it in Eco mode when I can, albeit for some of the roads Eco mode isn't sufficient enough to get the speed up.

Edit: I'm Engrish. It's not my main language.

 

[ahmett]

First of all, I want to say thank you all for the help and tips about this issue. It's great to see so many get involved!

Today I drove out to Fiat and explained to them about the power loss. They hooked it up with a diagnostics pad, but the mechanic couldn't find any messages or faults in the system, so he took it out for a short drive.

He came back and checked the system again. No faults. He did however, tell me that a new owner on a brand new Fiat 500 Twin Air had just come in with seemingly the same issues as me and it was indeed the Coil Pack that needed replacement. There were also no faults or messages about it in the system of the car, so the mechanic figured that it might be the coil pack. They ordered a new coil pack, and as they did they told me that if this happens again, *DON'T* shut down the engine, but drive straight out to them.

I drove the car away and filled it with petrol. Less than an hour later I experienced power loss. Car lost engine power and then resumed after a couple of seconds. I thought about what the mechanic had said and drove straight towards Fiat, even though I knew that they had already ordered a new Coil Pack.

On my way to Fiat, the same thing happened again, going 35 MPH in third gear. General failure light was showing, and the display told me that Start & Stop was unavailable. I pulled into the parking lot of Fiat, went in and said that the car is on so now was the chance to check it out. I also explained what had happened when I was driving.

The mechanic went outside with the diagnostics machine and behold... no errors, no messages, even though the General failure light and the Start & Stop light was on. It was a bit confusing. He took it out for a new spin and at the same time they (Garage manager) reconfirmed that it looked like it might be the coil pack.

My wife and I waited for some time until he returned and he drove it straight into the garage. The workshop manager came up to us and told us that it wasn't the Coil Pack. They were unsure about what it was. He told us that we could borrow the new Fiat Panda in the meantime as the mechanic would have to work overtime to figure out what it was.

As we walked into the garage to gather our things from the 500, he told us that "this is an unacceptable behaviour for a new car and we'll get to the bottom of this. You're not supposed to buy a new car and experience this. It is totally unacceptable". So, from what I gathered from the look on his face and the way he exclaimed that message to us plus that the mechanic just drove it straight into the garage, he had experienced the same thing when he was out driving. The two power losses I experienced were in a drive range of about 4 miles, and he was gone for a while so he must have experienced it.

All in all it was a positive experience with Fiat. They acknowledged that something is wrong and that they are determined to fix it, so we'll wait and see. Either way, the new Fiat Panda is great and we have a car that we can use in the meantime. We're hoping for the best. I'll post again when I know more.

PS: One thing I forgot to mention is that the car loses all engine power when hitting 4k RPM. Dumb me thought it might be the turbo cutting or something. I told the mechanic that and he told me "That's weird". I don't drive the car hard but we have some steep hills here with traffic and sometimes I need to hit nearly 4k or right above 3.5k RPM to move forward fast enough and get enough power. I'm usually pretty easy on the throttle and I don't rev it. I usually drive it in Eco mode when I can, albeit for some of the roads Eco mode isn't sufficient enough to get the speed up.

Edit: I'm Engrish. It's not my main language.

When I test drove the TA, the power run out at 6000 rpm = ) You sure you don't have a diesel? haha.

In any case please let us know the outcome and the best of luck. Tell them to replace to coil packs for good measure while its there anyway.

Keep us posted!

 

[RobinPJ]

Really good to hear of a dealer respond that way - care to give them some well deserved publicity by naming them?

 

[MikeXL]

Really good to hear of a dealer respond that way - care to give them some well deserved publicity by naming them?

Oh yes, sure. It's Ødegårds Bil (I'm not allowed to post link but it should be first result in google listing).

Very good customer service and pretty nice shop. AFAIK, they're expanding by building a new warehouse on a small (of what used to be) field right next to where they're setup now.

 

[RobinPJ]

If I am ever in Norway I shall head in their direction.

 

[simon willgress]

First of all, I want to say thank you all for the help and tips about this issue. It's great to see so many get involved!

Today I drove out to Fiat and explained to them about the power loss. They hooked it up with a diagnostics pad, but the mechanic couldn't find any messages or faults in the system, so he took it out for a short drive.

He came back and checked the system again. No faults. He did however, tell me that a new owner on a brand new Fiat 500 Twin Air had just come in with seemingly the same issues as me and it was indeed the Coil Pack that needed replacement. There were also no faults or messages about it in the system of the car, so the mechanic figured that it might be the coil pack. They ordered a new coil pack, and as they did they told me that if this happens again, *DON'T* shut down the engine, but drive straight out to them.

I drove the car away and filled it with petrol. Less than an hour later I experienced power loss. Car lost engine power and then resumed after a couple of seconds. I thought about what the mechanic had said and drove straight towards Fiat, even though I knew that they had already ordered a new Coil Pack.

On my way to Fiat, the same thing happened again, going 35 MPH in third gear. General failure light was showing, and the display told me that Start & Stop was unavailable. I pulled into the parking lot of Fiat, went in and said that the car is on so now was the chance to check it out. I also explained what had happened when I was driving.

The mechanic went outside with the diagnostics machine and behold... no errors, no messages, even though the General failure light and the Start & Stop light was on. It was a bit confusing. He took it out for a new spin and at the same time they (Garage manager) reconfirmed that it looked like it might be the coil pack.

My wife and I waited for some time until he returned and he drove it straight into the garage. The workshop manager came up to us and told us that it wasn't the Coil Pack. They were unsure about what it was. He told us that we could borrow the new Fiat Panda in the meantime as the mechanic would have to work overtime to figure out what it was.

As we walked into the garage to gather our things from the 500, he told us that "this is an unacceptable behaviour for a new car and we'll get to the bottom of this. You're not supposed to buy a new car and experience this. It is totally unacceptable". So, from what I gathered from the look on his face and the way he exclaimed that message to us plus that the mechanic just drove it straight into the garage, he had experienced the same thing when he was out driving. The two power losses I experienced were in a drive range of about 4 miles, and he was gone for a while so he must have experienced it.

All in all it was a positive experience with Fiat. They acknowledged that something is wrong and that they are determined to fix it, so we'll wait and see. Either way, the new Fiat Panda is great and we have a car that we can use in the meantime. We're hoping for the best. I'll post again when I know more.

PS: One thing I forgot to mention is that the car loses all engine power when hitting 4k RPM. Dumb me thought it might be the turbo cutting or something. I told the mechanic that and he told me "That's weird". I don't drive the car hard but we have some steep hills here with traffic and sometimes I need to hit nearly 4k or right above 3.5k RPM to move forward fast enough and get enough power. I'm usually pretty easy on the throttle and I don't rev it. I usually drive it in Eco mode when I can, albeit for some of the roads Eco mode isn't sufficient enough to get the speed up.

Edit: I'm Engrish. It's not my main language.

I had exact same symptoms as you have described and it was the coil pack.

General injection fault and stop start failure.

Like i said, coil pack replaced and no issue since. My dealer is diss Desira If you want to pass that onto you dealer they might as well give them a call to discuss.

 

[MikeXL]

I had exact same symptoms as you have described and it was the coil pack.

General injection fault and stop start failure.

Like i said, coil pack replaced and no issue since. My dealer is diss Desira If you want to pass that onto you dealer they might as well give them a call to discuss.

Hey!

Today we got the car back from the dealer and I recieved a rapport of what was wrong.

It says:

Fiat 500

Version: All 0.9 TwinAir 85 HP models with manual gearbox and Start&Stop

INJECTION CONTROL UNIT
During acceleration, the engine tends to switch off - Switching -on of the general failure warning light - Failed /irregular operation of the Start&Stop system with engine power loss - Service Solution


FAULT COMPLAINED OF

The customer complaints of one or more of the following faults:

* When starting from stationary, the engine tends to switch off in settings-off step.
* Irregular operation of the Start &STop system at low temperatures.
*Switching-on of the general failure warning light and Start & Stop system not available, with simultaneous engine power loss.

TECHNICAL CAUSE
Injection control unit software calibrations.

SERVICE SOLUTION
Once the claimed fault is confirmed, reprogramme the injection control unit using the new software WEB Flash 9.19.0 (or higher) available from the Examiner Web and wiTEXEDI according to the operating cycle below.

Then it goes on how to do it.

The only error here is that the engine temperature was normal as I had been driving for a while and outside it was 24 degrees celcius.

Either way, what they basically told me is that the engine will enter "Emergency mode" and cut power. I don't know what else they did, but the engine is also able to hold higher RPMs and I haven't had a light all day (been out driving all day). Start & Stop functions as well. Problem seems to be solved and it seemed to be a software error. The mechanic said the Injection Control Unit was not calibrated due to the software and this was what caused my errors!

They gave me the report and the keys and said that hopefully they won't see me in the garage with this car until it's due for service, and then we took off.

Wish I had a scanner so I could scan in the report, but I typed mostly all except for which software version it was and whatnot.

 

[The Twins]

A couple of things to consider..

1. The Twinair will not rev above 3000rpm when stationary, in gear with the clutch in [down], it's normal.

2. It is really easy to hit 6000rpm without even realsing it if you came from a 'normal' 4cyl engine. The soound of the TA is very low pitch and it takes time to re adjust your perception of the revs / engine tone.

At first, my wife complained about power cutting in when she was pulling away and accelerating but in reality she was just hitting the rev limiter.

Maybe the above is nothing to do with your issue but though it was worth a mention.

All the best!

[EDIT : Sorry MikeXL, just saw your update above... seems the fault is identified now. hope they fix it quick for you]