Ducato MultiECUScan best version / differences

[MohoAdventures]

Hi all,

I'm planning to buy MES and was wondering if anyone has any experience of the "Full Licensed Package" USB / Bluetooth versions? Is either better than the other (e.g. is one quicker than the other) or are they both as good as each other?

I'm trying to track down the root cause of an ECU issue (P2146/12) and would like to look at all related sensors/outputs at the same time. Anyone know if this is possible with the above versions or would I be better going with the "FULL Multiplexed Package"?

Thank you for any help!

 

[the green vanper]

Hello,

Have you seen the comparison table on the https://www.multiecuscan.net/ ?

The only difference between the multiplexed and the registered version is the interface + the price of course. All functions are the same.

I've got a bluetooth interface, which connects with no extra adapter needed to all modules (I paid for it something like 40 EUR) + the KKL cable (which I've used years ago with another car). The advantage of the bluetooth interface is that I'm using it both for MES (which is installed on my windows laptop) and Torque Lite (on my android phone).

The colour adapters needed for the cable interface make the operation a little bit more complicated, that's why I decided to go for a bluetooth one instead of a set of adapters. Plus of course it gave me the possibility of using the adapter with Torque Lite during driving (for example to clear the error codes if they appear).

The registered version allows you to connect whatever interface you want, the only limitation is it has to be able to work with FIAT. There are adapters that are working flawlessy with MES and FIAT, others can have issues. I've tested a cheap ELM from aliexpress which I'm using on my daily and it was not able to connect. So bought the one dedicated for FIAT and everything works fine

 

[MohoAdventures]

Thanks for the reply!

I was using the product comparison tab on this page.
The £129.95 USB/BT versions are of course much more wallet pleasing than the £360 multiplex version!

I have an ELM 327 bluetooth adapter already, but when connected to things like torque lite it doesn't give me all of the sensor data that I'd like to look at. I've always assumed it was the hardware that couldn't read the sensors but realise now possibly it's software related (and I'd expect using the free versions to be limited). The connection can sometimes be a pain (needing to unplug and replug) but otherwise it has seemed ok, allowing me to read and clear fault codes etc.

I also have a USB to OBD port cable that looks very much like the KL/VAGCOM cable shown here, but has no stickers, it's quite old and I can't remember what it is.

I don't have any of the coloured adapters, although for the engine ECU I don't think I necessarily need any.

At this point I'd rather pay for something I know is going to work even if I end up with extra hardware.

I'm really after live data readings from multiple sensors at the same time (the sensors that feed in to the engine ECU and the engine ECU output to the injectors). Ideally I'd like to be able to record the data for future analysis. I have no idea if what I'm looking for is even possible!?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Thanks for the reply!

I was using the product comparison tab on this page.
The £129.95 USB/BT versions are of course much more wallet pleasing than the £360 multiplex version!

I have an ELM 327 bluetooth adapter already, but when connected to things like torque lite it doesn't give me all of the sensor data that I'd like to look at. I've always assumed it was the hardware that couldn't read the sensors but realise now possibly it's software related (and I'd expect using the free versions to be limited). The connection can sometimes be a pain (needing to unplug and replug) but otherwise it has seemed ok, allowing me to read and clear fault codes etc.

I also have a USB to OBD port cable that looks very much like the KL/VAGCOM cable shown here, but has no stickers, it's quite old and I can't remember what it is.

I don't have any of the coloured adapters, although for the engine ECU I don't think I necessarily need any.

At this point I'd rather pay for something I know is going to work even if I end up with extra hardware.

I'm really after live data readings from multiple sensors at the same time (the sensors that feed in to the engine ECU and the engine ECU output to the injectors). Ideally I'd like to be able to record the data for future analysis. I have no idea if what I'm looking for is even possible!?

I just picked up on this thread so sorry for being a bit late to comment.

You could do a lot worse than to pick up the phone and have a chat with the folk at Gendan. https://www.gendan.co.uk/multiecusc..._9SzctViuyMMeZUzYXpu4HCFBRlF0mKsaAt96EALw_wcB

I'd had reason to contact them a couple of times about other things and had found them very helpful and not at all "pushy". so, when I was considering buying MES for myself I must have rung them half a dozen times with questions and for advice. Mostly I talked to a chap called Grant who was very patient and full of advice and didn't try to aggressively "sell" me anything but helped me to sort out in my own head what would suit me best.

In the event I bought the multiplex version from them - which suited my purposes best - but I think most people would find the multi lead version entirely satisfactory and considerably cheaper. It may help you to know why I went with the multiplex version? I started seriously into diagnostics with my VAG vehicles (Skodas and SEATs) for which I bought a fully registered version of VAG-COM (now known as VCDS). Here's a picture of both connectors:

VAG-COM on the left and the Multiecuscan on the right. I had been messing about with the VAG-COM for a number of years before buying MES and you will notice it's just one plug in adaptor. This enables you to scan and connect to anything the software permits without changing adaptors so I became used to this and, in fact, my standard procedure before doing any "serious" work on one of the vehicles is to do a whole vehicle scan before starting. Because there's just the one connector it means I can do this in a very short time and end up with a complete record of faults before I start - incredibly useful when doing a routine service for instance. When I looked at MES I just didn't like the idea of having to switch around connectors to "talk" to the different controllers so I "bit the bullet" and bought the multiplexed version which allows me to do the same "whole system" scan in just minutes before starting. Yes It's considerably more expensive but, in my opinion, oh so much more convenient. Only worth it if you can justify the outlay though.

One advantage of the multiplex is it's license is tied to the interface so you can download as many copies of the software to different devices and the interface will work with any of them whereas the other versions are tied to the device itself. So far this hasn't been much advantage to me but when i buy a new laptop I'll be able to use it with it too without the hassle of swopping it between devices.

About the only other thing I found difficulty with was initially getting the interface and laptop to "talk" to each other - it was all about com ports and baud rates. You need to carefully read and take in the instructions and even then, if you are having difficulty, there are folk on here who will talk you through it. I was given a lot of great help both from forum members and Grant at Gendan. In fact I'm still in regular contact with Grant and we talk about stuff like how to bring up fuel trims - which aren't called "fuel trim" in the program. Also MES is very good at "helping" with every page including descriptions of the tasks/displays you are looking at. Have you experimented with the "simulate" function in the free to download version? I can strongly recommend doing this as it gives you a very good feel as to what it's like to use on the vehicle.

MES doesn't allow you to delve into "stuff" on the Fiats as deeply as VCDS does on the VAG stuff, but I think it lets you do pretty much anything most of us are capable of understanding. There is stuff in VCDS which I still, years on, don't understand how to do whereas there's not much in MES I don't understand and can use to advantage. You mention above looking for live data? Oh yes, easily done and you can graph multiple outputs for comparison - often a graphed output compared with another immediately lets you see deviations clearly and quickly and is one of my favourite ways to troubleshoot. You can also drive actuators etc.

So, even if you don't buy from them, give Gendan a ring and be very careful/wary of buying cheap connectors as many on the forum have reported problems getting them to work. - By the way, I've no connection with them apart from being a very very satisfied customer.

Good luck and please do keep us informed of how you get on and what you decide to buy in the end.

 

[theoneandonly]

What model age have you got? The need for coloured adaptor or KKL IS dependent on model . my 2017 euro 6 only requires one adaptor (yellow). I use both usb and bt both wth mes windows and alfaobd/ torque pro on android. Usb is quicker and more pids measured at a time, but i still use a bt permamently attached for 90% of time. Use usb for sensitive transmition eg proxi align, key proggramming.

 

[MohoAdventures]

Thank you all!

We have a 2019 registered Ducato 2.3l campervan (2018 out of the factory).
As mentioned in the reply above, I would only need the yellow adapter to talk to everything.
I'm, only currently interested in the Engine ECU which doesn't need an adapter at all.

I've had a play with the free version in simulation mode and it doesn't look too dissimilar to what I was getting on Torque Lite, possibly more sensors.

I'm thinking I'll connect the free version to the van using the USB and Bluetooth adapters that I've already got, and hopefully that will give me an idea of what is going to work best for me. I'm not expecting everything to work with what I have.

I do like the idea of the multiplex license being linked to the unit, my laptop is old and starting to fail.

Thanks again everyone, I really appreciate your knowledge.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Thank you all!

We have a 2019 registered Ducato 2.3l campervan (2018 out of the factory).
As mentioned in the reply above, I would only need the yellow adapter to talk to everything.
I'm, only currently interested in the Engine ECU which doesn't need an adapter at all.

I've had a play with the free version in simulation mode and it doesn't look too dissimilar to what I was getting on Torque Lite, possibly more sensors.

I'm thinking I'll connect the free version to the van using the USB and Bluetooth adapters that I've already got, and hopefully that will give me an idea of what is going to work best for me. I'm not expecting everything to work with what I have.

I do like the idea of the multiplex license being linked to the unit, my laptop is old and starting to fail.

Thanks again everyone, I really appreciate your knowledge.

Sounds like a good plan to me.

Electronic Vehicle Diagnostics is a funny old game for the non professional I think because there are two main problems. In an amateur setting you're very unlikely to have access to diagnostic gear which gives you the access to the vehicle that the equipment in a main dealer does but also there's the fact that very few of us have had much by way of training, especially in the more modern stuff with their "dastardly" security gateways! So, at the end of the day, you are going to be limited by both equipment and your own knowledge as to what you can realistically achieve.

Once you get beyond simply reading and trying to understand OBD codes and, more importantly, what a code definition is actually telling you about what that ECU "thinks" is the problem, Then quite a bit of research into what the best package to buy is required and it's easy to waste money on something which doesn't really accomplish what you want. However, if you persevere and do the "legwork" - I got into VAG stuff first as we had a number of Skoda and Seat products in the family. I didn't "jump in" to buying for several years. Talking to other enthusiasts, "lurking" on forums (Cupra Forum members were especially helpful https://www.seatcupra.net/forums/) and generally making a nuisance of myself around our two major VAG indies - main dealers and manufacturers aren't interested. I also was reading lots of books about diagnostics and learning from the vehicles themselves - for instance, once I understood how an Oxygen Sensor "switches", I was able to actually hear the very slight rise and fall in revs on our old Panda (the one in my avatar picture) and diagnose that it was switching far to slowly causing the hesitation during acceleration I'd been experiencing for the last year! I changed a similar sensor on my boy's Astra and spent some time with it clamped in my bench vice connected to a voltmeter while playing a plumbers blowtorch over the other end and watching the voltage output and switching when removing or applying the flame. I "fiddled with lots of other components too, steadily building up my practical knowledge and, eventually, thus armed with information and, being prepared to spend rather more money than an OBD code reader/scanner costs I bought into VAG-COM and spent the next few years discovering how little I really knew about diagnostics. And that's the other big problem for us - lack of practical knowledge and experience with the kit. I earned my living for years "on the tools". Last vehicle I worked professionally on was Maestro/Montego and other vehicles of that era. Since then I'm all self taught so it's been stuff I had to get to grips with to solve a particular problem rather than a comprehensive manufacturer course. There's still stuff in VAG-COM (VCDS as it's now called) which I can't do and won't attempt as the result of getting it wrong could be very expensive. By the time I bought MES some years later my knowledge base had gone up the scale considerably and I find MES much easier to use anyway.

So, despite all that earlier mechanical knowledge and the later electronic experience I've picked up, I still find myself making the most stupid mistakes. I've been incredibly lucky in that I've, so far, never ruined something really expensive - Ooops! should I have said that? - and I'm making less "boobs" now than I used to. Also have better understanding of when I should be baling out and calling in someone who "really knows". One rather encouraging thing I've found out is that, in my experience, it's pretty rare to find an ECU failure - not completely unknown, but rare. Much more common for it to be a faulty connector, and this is very common as it doesn't take much to introduce a high resistance into a connector which will defeat/interfere with the very small currents most sensors use. I've had a tube of Contralube770 for years which I smear into connectors and I find pretty much eliminates this problem. I think the product has roughly trebled in price but my tube should outlast me. If you're going to do something like this you need a proper dedicated product, not simply a waterproofer like vaseline which could impede electrical flow.

More than anything though I find it great fun doing this sort of stuff although I think the more modern vehicles are going to be very difficult to do much with as manufacturer systems become more and more difficult to actually connect to with amateur equipment.

So, good luck with your endeavours and I hope you're having fun!

 

[the green vanper]

I'm thinking I'll connect the free version to the van using the USB and Bluetooth adapters that I've already got, and hopefully that will give me an idea of what is going to work best for me. I'm not expecting everything to work with what I have.

That's the best for start, I did the same, but the simple chinese ELM which I'm using with my daily to read the drive parameters from was not willing to cooperate with FIAT But the KKL cable I've used before on the Alfa was working fine, which allowed me to browse through the MES options. And convinced me to buy the bluetooth interface dedicated to FIAT (I've paid for it less than 40 EUR three years ago) and then the MES license to deal with the key programming.

I do like the idea of the multiplex license being linked to the unit, my laptop is old and starting to fail.

It the age of the laptop is your only reason, it's not worth it. Switching the license to the new laptop took me not more than 20 minutes + the time MES dealed with the request (I've sent it late in the evening, they replied the next morning).