General Jacking and lifting points diagram for 2010 Bravo 198

[Sylvester22]

Hi all, I've been searching for a diagram on this, but nothing has come up for this model.

I'm not a big fan of lifting the car by the seals, especially the front, so I'd like to know the safe jacking points rather. Cheers

 

[bugsymike]

Hi all, I've been searching for a diagram on this, but nothing has come up for this model.

I'm not a big fan of lifting the car by the seals, especially the front, so I'd like to know the safe jacking points rather. Cheers

I agree, on most vehicles I use a proper garage jack , sometimes with a rubber pad , but try to stay on subframe or suspension mounting points.Cars like VW have arrows on sills pointing to suitable areas to jack , but personally after many years ago watching a deaf Mot Tester jack a car on the sills and hearing it crumple on it's first Mot, it wouldn't fill me with confidence.
Apart from it stressing that area possibly opening seams allowing water in to rust, it seems a poor solution.

 

[Sylvester22]

watching a deaf Mot Tester jack a car on the sills and hearing it crumple on it's first Mot, it wouldn't fill me with confidence

I've checked the manual, but doesn't show anything apart from the sill-lifting points. I get the subframe and that, but a picture from Fiat would be very helpful and reassuring.

That's why I used to give mechanics a pic showing the lifting points, I don't trust them a lot after many failed even on basic things.
Also now I take a video of the car before handing it over, around the chassis and the odo meter as well, I'll directly tell them now, not to drive the car on the street without my permission, I've had enough of them using my car for their personal reasons, which imo should be illegal, especially them having no insurance as well.

 

[bugsymike]

I've checked the manual, but doesn't show anything apart from the sill-lifting points. I get the subframe and that, but a picture from Fiat would be very helpful and reassuring.

That's why I used to give mechanics a pic showing the lifting points, I don't trust them a lot after many failed even on basic things.
Also now I take a video of the car before handing it over, around the chassis and the odo meter as well, I'll directly tell them now, not to drive the car on the street without my permission, I've had enough of them using my car for their personal reasons, which imo should be illegal, especially them having no insurance as well.

I agree with the reasons you have done this, but speaking as a retired motor engineer it is probably the worst thing you can do if hoping to establish trust with your mechanic.
I recall we used to have customers in the old days who would mark the wheel nuts inside the hub cap to see if we had taken the brakes off, which we felt was an insult as we always did the job right.
So we would do the job, mark inside the brake drum to prove we had been there, then refit wheels exactly as they came in with all of customers marks lined up, to put two fingers up to them, as we felt so angry.

 

[Zardo]

I have the same problem with my 2010 Abarth Punto Evo.

Fiat only indicates those 4 lifting points on the sills, all of them very narrow, especially on the front.

It's actually not possible to lift the car with a jack on the forward jacking points, and then place a jack stand on that same sill next to the jack, because either the jack or the jack stand will fit the narrow opening of the trim, but not both.

Fiat/Abarth formally prohibits to use any other surface or axle, even in the Elearn. But I've never seen those sills used for a 4-point hydraulic lift in the garage.

 

[Sylvester22]

speaking as a retired motor engineer it is

Thanks I'm aware, and I don't want to be to much in their faces, but I'd had my cars damaged and/or used for longitude of time without my knowledge, I'd noticed some skipping jobs but still charging me, lying about stuff, many years ago one even damaged my car, etc so I'm definitely against that.
I pay good a amount of money for works, therefore I expect things in return, but too many bad mechanics use that most don't understand much about cars. There's good mechanics and I've been appreciative of them, but nowadays you gotta be on your toes about these too.

 

[Sylvester22]

Fiat only indicates those 4 lifting points on the sills, all of them very narrow, especially on the front.

Indeed, very strange there's nothing about in the manual either. I'll get a ramp later and try to see what's going on underneath.

 

[124BC1]

I have a 2008 Bravo and iirc there's a *diagram in the Owners Manual that shows the only lifting points to be used and that this should only be done using a vehicle hoist/lift, no jacks or axle stands. I vaguely recall that these lifting points are 4 support points that are possibly inboard of the sills?

My Bravo is unfortunately fitted with factory fitted sill covers/trims same as on the Sport? version - I have to remove these every year before submitting the car for it's annual roadworthiness test (similar to the MOT in the U.K.) because the testers just position blocks under at front and rear of the sills before raising the car on their large scissors lifts - the Fiat main dealer advised I do this as other's customer's sill covers had been damaged by the lifting blocks.

If I can find this *diagram and recommendations in the owner's manual, I'll post it here.

 

[Zardo]

For a 198 Bravo 1.4 16 V:

To raise the vehicle using lift arms or a workshop lift, arrange the ends of the arms or the lift in the areas shown in the diagram only. Take care on the SPORT versions not to damage the side skirts The vehicle should only be raised at the side. After raising the vehicle, support it on safety stands. It is absolutely forbidden to lift the vehicle by positioning the workshop lift under the front suspension track control arms and strap or under the rear suspension axle.

See also p. 189 in the manual

 

[Zardo]

There‘s basically the same description for the Abarth Punto Evo:

JACKING THE CAR​

If the vehicle needs to be raised, go to an Abarth
Dealership which is equipped with arm lifts and
workshop lifts.
Lift the car only by positioning the ends of the jack arms
or the workshop lift at the points shown in fig. 163
corresponding to symbols ▼ indicated on the side
skirts.
IMPORTANT Take care not to damage the side skirts
when lifting the car with the workshop lift

However, at least for the front jacking point, putting the arm lifts where they‘re supposed to be damages the side skirts and they will detach from the frame as they are only glued to it. Also some other weak metallic structure might actually bend, which makes glueing the skirts to the frame quite a hassle. It looks nice in the picture but doesn‘t work in the real world.

On the front, there is some kind of box structure a bit further in and in front of the „official“ jacking point, to prevent the skirts to depart even further from the frame I have used my jack on that since the spherical rubber part is actually too big to fit the sill. And it‘s a good quality standard aftermarket hydraulic jack as the scissor jack doesn‘t stand very well on the ground. It‘s really annoying.

The rear jacking points on the sills are actually spacey enough to fit the jack (equipped with a sill-fitting rubber).

 

[bugsymike]

Thanks I'm aware, and I don't want to be to much in their faces, but I'd had my cars damaged and/or used for longitude of time without my knowledge, I'd noticed some skipping jobs but still charging me, lying about stuff, many years ago one even damaged my car, etc so I'm definitely against that.
I pay good a amount of money for works, therefore I expect things in return, but too many bad mechanics use that most don't understand much about cars. There's good mechanics and I've been appreciative of them, but nowadays you gotta be on your toes about these too.

I am sorry you have had bad experiences, but I don't wish you to tarnish every mechanic across the World, in much the same way it is possible to say the same about every profession one comes across in life, when in fact the majority are good honest people.
Whilst working as a foreman for other garages before starting my own, I have had to experience smartly dressed people who work in retail talking down to mechanics in a derogatory manner simply because they are dressed in workman's overalls, so they assume that they are superior.
So when I point out that the person working on the car is a highly qualified engineer with trade qualifications that took many years to complete and that further more if they were to make a mistake it could cost someone's life, where as in their profession the worst thing they could do is give a customer the wrong change when paying their bill!!!

 

[Zardo]

I found this post, it shows the frame (underside) of a Grande Punto

jacking points | FIAT Punto Evo

well the haynes 5956 manual for this car arrived, and as usual quite pathetic really, no proper wiring diagrams for the ign/sensors etc. for the engine.......and no list of earth points, but some pictures of earth points..... anyways, jacking points. We know of the 4 triangle area jacking...

www.fiatforum.com

https://www.fiatforum.com/attachments/jacking-20points-jpeg.203015/

 

[bugsymike]

There‘s basically the same description for the Abarth Punto Evo:


View attachment 457234
However, at least for the front jacking point, putting the arm lifts where they‘re supposed to be damages the side skirts and they will detach from the frame as they are only glued to it. Also some other weak metallic structure might actually bend, which makes glueing the skirts to the frame quite a hassle. It looks nice in the picture but doesn‘t work in the real world.

View attachment 457235

On the front, there is some kind of box structure a bit further in and in front of the „official“ jacking point, to prevent the skirts to depart even further from the frame I have used my jack on that since the spherical rubber part is actually too big to fit the sill. And it‘s a good quality standard aftermarket hydraulic jack as the scissor jack doesn‘t stand very well on the ground. It‘s really annoying.

The rear jacking points on the sills are actually spacey enough to fit the jack (equipped with a sill-fitting rubber).

I believe @Pugglt Auld Jock did a piece about a support he made that fitted on the sill whilst spreading the load so as not to cause damage when using a garage style jack.
Many wheel free modern garage ramps have large rubber pads on the support arms when lifting on sills to spread the load better, but I am not a great fan.
Design of modern front wheel drive cars mean that for access when working on gearboxes etc. this method is the best option, where as in the distant past when I trained we had solid ramps that you drove onto and the jacking beams or "wheel free" methods were used to support the much stronger chassis or subframes without using the sills at all, but the majority of vehicles were rear wheel drive. This just goes to show how ancient I am.

 

[Zardo]

Yes, the thing is, the sills are much deeper than the side skirts, a garage lift has big rubber plate which will crush the skirts if the plates are positioned right under the sills as the official picture (see above) suggests. Even spreading the load won‘t help much as it is still plastic.

So it seems this tunnel is used as shown here:

This is the underside of a GP. I'd be surprised if the Evo is any different. I have highlighted solid parts of the floor pan. You should use rubber pads or at least some wood on your jack to avoid damaging the underseal.

Hth, Simon.

 

[bugsymike]

Yes, the thing is, the sills are much deeper than the side skirts, a garage lift has big rubber plate which will crush the skirts if the plates are positioned right under the sills as the official picture (see above) suggests. Even spreading the load won‘t help much as it is still plastic.

So it seems this tunnel is used as shown here:

I agree, I think if I was using that type of support arm on a garage ramp I would try to position the arms on the subframe or suspension supports where bolted to the car frame as a more sturdy area, rather than the more popular sill area.

 

[Zardo]

Also, as far as I remember, the sill is reinforced where those triangles are but the rest of the sill looks weaker.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I believe @Pugglt Auld Jock did a piece about a support he made that fitted on the sill whilst spreading the load so as not to cause damage when using a garage style jack.
Many wheel free modern garage ramps have large rubber pads on the support arms when lifting on sills to spread the load better, but I am not a great fan.
Design of modern front wheel drive cars mean that for access when working on gearboxes etc. this method is the best option, where as in the distant past when I trained we had solid ramps that you drove onto and the jacking beams or "wheel free" methods were used to support the much stronger chassis or subframes without using the sills at all, but the majority of vehicles were rear wheel drive. This just goes to show how ancient I am.

Aye Mike. I think you're referring to this: https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/r...e-cars-some-thoughts-and-observations.503811/ See page 3 for pictures.

I do prefer to jack on the box sections or subframes if possible though. Jacking modern vehicles is becoming much more hazardous compared to the stuff I worked on back then. There are now large plastic undertrays and sill cladding which makes life more difficult - the underneath of my new Skoda Scala is almost entirely clad in plastic! Daughter in law's Mazda2 is a case in point regarding the sills - luckily the Skoda's sills are not plastic clad, however the Mazda's sills are completely clad in plastic with just wee cutouts for the emergency jack to fit in. The car didn't come with a spare or a jack or a wheel brace so I bought a kit on you ebay from a place in the Midlands. I hadn't thought about whether the jack would fit but luckily they obviously had so all was well.

 

[Sylvester22]

fitted with factory fitted sill covers/trims same as on the Sport? version - I have to remove these every year

I've got sport sill covers as well, cheers for the info, are they difficult to remove?

 

[Sylvester22]

For a 198 Bravo 1.4 16 V:

View attachment 457232
See also p. 189 in the manual

Cheers for the info Zardo, I'm a tad confused though, as usually the rear suspension axle is among the recommended lifting point , I wonder why it's not on the Bravo.

"On the front, there is some kind of box structure a bit further in and in front of the „official“ jacking point, to prevent the skirts to depart even further from the frame I have used my jack on that"

I'll have a look, I just wonder how many shops know this. I'll get winter tyres next week, so I'll double check to know it for sure, cheers.

 

[Sylvester22]

Whilst working as a foreman for other garages before starting my own, I have had to experience smartly dressed people who work in retail talking down to mechanics in a derogatory manner simply because they are dressed in workman's overalls, so they assume that they are superior.

That's wrong of course and shouldn't be accepted, good people should be respected regardless their jobs, plus mechanics actually make better money than most retail managers, my bad experiences though made aware to always double check the works done, tbf I'd more of those issues in Hungary, in the UK the situation was rather better.