Technical Input shaft bearing renewal

[Mr Wild]

Hello

Half-way into renewing the clutch on my punto. Have transmission off, slight bit of play on the input shaft, able to rattle it side-to-side, when gearbox in neutral and rotating shaft by hand moves freely but it sounds a bit gritty.

When driving was getting a rumbling noise, checked oil level, clutch packed in so had to begin renewal. Noise disappeared when clutch pedal depressed.

Wondering how difficult it is to replace the input shaft bearing, incase it's causing the problem? Would I need any specialist tools, is it easy to get access to the input shaft bearing once the transmission is opened up?

Thanks

 

[Mr Wild]

I am overwhelmed with the response.

Job done, surprisingly easy to take the box apart, the bearing was shot to bits, side walls obliterated and pitting all along the inside ring from the ball bearings grinding.

Took about 2 hours to open it up, spray the innards clean, put in a new oil seal and bearing and piece it back together. All you need is a spanner and a big hammer.

No play whatsoever on input shaft now, sounds a lot better to turn. Fingers crossed for getting her up and running again.

Of course finding the transmission to be a real bitch to attach back to the engine block...don't know why but can't get it to snap back on. Try again in the morning.

Oh and FYI, turns out my original clutch was a Valeo, and it was juddering like hell since day one...or have I survived all this time with a dodgey gearbox bearing? Who knows, happy to have sorted it though.

 

[bowiemlt]

By input shaft bearing, do you mean the Thrust Bearing? Or a bearing which is situated in the actual gearbox?

 

[Mr Wild]

The gearbox input shaft bearing, inside the gearbox itself.

While we're on the subject of clutches, does anyone know if the thrust bearing attaches onto the release fork, or does it simply sit in front of it?

Because if it only sits in front of it, what prevents the back part of the bearing from whizzing around? What prevents it from sliding about when you're trying to mount the bell housing back onto the engine block?

I got the quinton hazel kit, and it has square lugs on the back, with like a push in clip but it's not quite narrow enough to wedge inbetween the raised lips on the release fork.

 

[bowiemlt]

Mr Wild, I think I have the same problem as you. I hear a circling sound, and when I press the clutch it vanishes. The thrust bearing was changed around a year ago and it still made the same noise. The mecahnic told me its normal that puntos do this :S. I said its bulls**t. Anyway is it a big job to change the bearing?? I understand its best to change the gearbox oil bearing and oil seal.

to remove the gearbox bell housing the bolts are unscrewed from the back i believe?

Thanks in advance,

Luke

 

[Mr Wild]

Well it seemed like a fairly straight forward job when I did it the other day, I had help but it was unknown territory to the pair of us and we did it without any major problems.

Tools you'll need is 12mm Allen key to remove the drain plug, clean bucket to catch your oil, spanner to take the box apart, and once you're in a hammer and screw driver to bash the old bearing off, then the same again for the oil seal. Oil seal was tricky to get in, but just kept bashing it around the edges with a piece of dowel until it lay flat nice and snug in the hole. You'll also need some gasket sealant for putting it all back together to prevent any oil leaks and I used a hefty ammount of spray cleaner and sprayed all around the inside of the gearbox to shift any little metallic debris before putting it back together.

Hopefully didn't commit any major no-no's, but there's zero guidance on the subject in the Haynes manual and I had already bought the part (via ebay, £15 for bearing + seal for a mk2 1.2 8v gearbox) and I'm pleased it's done since it went back together no bother and sounds sweet as a nut.

I took some pictures to keep myself right while I was doing it, could post them up later on.

 

[bowiemlt]

Yes I would appreciate the pictures as I have an 1108C engine do our engines have the same gear box? If so can you please refer me from where you bought the seal and the bearing? I cant wait to fix it...

 

[Mr Wild]

Ok here are the photos I took while I was doing it.

Firstly remove the 5 bolts securing the selector housing and withdraw it vertically:

Note the position of the gear selectors inline for reattachment:

Undo the 6 or so bolts securing the gearbox to the bell housing:

As you withdraw the gearbox from the housing, a fork attached to the bell housing prevents you from fully extracting the gearbox, undo the bolts indicated to detach the fork:

One of the selectors is attached to the fork via this plunger head, and can be popped out by yanking it if required, we found ours had come out. Check that it is correctly secured when reassembling:

Once that's done, you should be able to withdraw the input shaft from the bell housing, and separate the gearbox, at which point you can inspect and replace your input shaft bearing indicated, making a note of its position on the shaft, I used a mallet and screw driver to take off the old one, and a bit of wood to bash the new one (pictured) on, I took the opportunity to spray it all clean with about 2 cans of cleaning solvent:

Looking at the reverse side of the bell housing, you can see the input shaft oil seal, this took a bit of work to get out and to replace, screwdriver to bash the old one out, and a bit of dowel to tap the new one in, mine distorted a bit as I did this, but I was able to bend it back into shape with a driver once I had it in place:

When reassembling use sealant to prevent any leaks, I used Locktite, not sure if it's the right one, it's an anerobic sealant, was the same colour and they use it all the time on the machine gaskets at work, I'll post the product details later if anyones interested:

(we were a bit too liberal in this picture):

To refit the box, just reverse the process above, good luck!

Bearings bottom and seals top, new to the left, old to the right, inner race of old bearing pitted from grinding, bearing walls non-existant, replacement part for a Punto Mk2 1.2 8v engine is an SKF explorer 6204-2RSH, same as OE part and purchased from

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230260988866&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=013, I have no idea about gearboxes or bearings for them I simply rang the bloke in the advert for part information:

Hope this helps!

Just did a quick search and it seems they're a lot cheaper to buy elsewhere, the benefit of hindsight!

http://www.bearing-king.co.uk/product/538

2024 Update by @Mike1alike:

I noticed that the very useful Mr Wild's pictures from the post #8 in this topic have gone missing. I'm reposting them here, along with Mr Wild's instructive notes.
@ben Could you please insert them into the original #8 post? Thank you!

 

[bowiemlt]

Dear Mr. Wild, you are the man!!

Thanks for this great help!!

 

[sparkyfixit]

Following on from your thread on gearbox bearings, I found this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/6204-2RS-Ball...39:1|66:2|65:15|240:1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

 

[Sanman21]

I noticed above in original article that the input shaft replacement bearing was quoted to be SKF explorer 6204-2RSH, but then also Mr Wild linked to the following bearing 6204-2RSR-C3 (The C3 part means it has extra clearence for hotter running).

Can anybody confirm the exact code for the 1.2 Fiat Punto 8v, as I am pretty sure I have the same problem and fancy giving this a go myself.

 

[DaveMcT]

This one fab thread.

Can the Mods put it up as a guide so folks can find it easily.

 

[Ziggy122]

This one fab thread.

Can the Mods put it up as a guide so folks can find it easily.

I agree - its handy
good job i found it eh?

Mr Wild - your still around according to your profile!

Come do tell us more!

ziggy

 

[Ziggy122]

Question about the bearing tho

Can it be any style bearing? or does it have to be a special bearing?

Since its the Input shaft, surly it only turns as fast as the engine? so 8k max is fine for standard bearings

Ziggy

 

[s and b]

This one fab thread.

Can the Mods put it up as a guide so folks can find it easily.

excellent find thanks mr wild and whitsei for raising the dead

now saved for future reference

 

[Ziggy122]

excellent find thanks mr wild and whitsei for raising the dead

now saved for future reference

I've book marked this thread too
i found it while talking in a recent thread of mine (linked it there)

Whitesei is right tho - we need this Sticky'd

If anybody does do it - more pictures and how they did would also come REALLY Really Handy

As Several version on such a common problem is always really good

Ziggy

 

[shaun200765]

Without going on too much lol, this thread has definitely convinced me that even I can do it

Great find Ziggy and well done to Mr Wild too

 

[DaveMcT]

Ziggy, I would get the original bearing type, but certainly talk to the bearing suppliers. They might be able to offer something stronger that can better handle the loads. I've done this with bike wheel bearings and usually been told the OEM I took in as a pattern was actually really cheap & nasty.

Though, Mr Wild said his bearing was pitted and breaking up. Pitting usually means corrosion so could the root cause be condensation? I've not idea if it is but (if one can be found) a corrosion resistant bearing of the same mechanical spec might be a better choice.

 

[Ziggy122]

Ironic thing is - went to the mechanic today - he's said yes input bearing shaft

LUCKILY! he had a bloke in 2007 who had a punto who had same problem - but the car never made it as it was wrote off

So sat there ready and waiting is a 1.2 Bearing and Seal

Okay i cant do the work - BUT Atleast the correct parts are already there

Ziggy

 

[flying clutchman]

When I've done these I usually take the end casing off and remove 5th gear etc., take the main casing off the bellhousing and remove input shaft. It's a bit more work, but sometimes the inner bearing race can be very tight on the shaft and it enables you to suport the shaft in a vice to drive it off(and replace) Now I've done a few I can do the job in about an hour.