Induction - options

[mrcinquecento]

My choice would be GSR or the one on ebay that u said:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360203242144&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Enclosed filter would be the best! keeping the warm air away completely!

Wouldn't build your own. You need to be clear if you performance or just the noise! I mean if all you wanted is more noise just drill some holes in the air box ....... If you want performance gains then best to stick with something known and take the price hit!

Probably best would be GSR with the BMC filter

Ming

fully agree about the noise, but totally disagree about the custom route.

obviously, its going to be very, very, very hard to make something better than whats available on the market given the development thats put into them, but i'm 100% certain it's realisticly possible to make far better bhp gains per pound of cash spent if you know what you are doing and where to get the bits.

the only way i'd reccomend the pricey option of a ready made is if you can get one second hand, or if the cost of making one is getting within £25 of a tried and tested kit.

 

[muppet42]

Well Phil (PNL) gave me some insights into building my own over on FSOC, but it sounded rather fraught with issues if I get it wrong. The price as I said wouldn't be advantageous either if I built my own, hence why I'm sticking it out for the GSR.

The filter you get with that kit is just your basic cotton one from eBay or other place - it's the hose work you're paying for. May well replace the cone filter at some other point though if I end up getting a GSR.

 

[mrcinquecento]

A gsr kit with a bmc cda on the end is popular in bigger engined or turbo cento conversions, where theres not much room to fit a filter in a colder area. ultimate (rolling road,bonnet open,fan assisted type) bhp and torque would suffer ever so slightly because it can't suck in quite as much air due to it being enclosed and limited to what the intake is at the end of the canister , but general, real world bhp and torque would be better because the air it does get is quite a bit cooler.

 

[Fasckira]

The current result!

I removed the air filter from the factory fitted box and used that instead as no matter how hard I tried I could not get the tubing to stay on but kept off the engine. My next course of action is to remove the air cone shield and fit it down behind the light where the original factory cold air feed ran (theres a closed in channel that runs down and comes out just in front of the tire) but its working for now!

 

[muppet42]

The current result!

I removed the air filter from the factory fitted box and used that instead as no matter how hard I tried I could not get the tubing to stay on but kept off the engine. My next course of action is to remove the air cone shield and fit it down behind the light where the original factory cold air feed ran (theres a closed in channel that runs down and comes out just in front of the tire) but its working for now!

Looks a little awkward, but I guess the main thing is that it's working for you

How does it sound compared to standard? Much louder?

 

[muppet42]

A gsr kit with a bmc cda on the end is popular in bigger engined or turbo cento conversions, where theres not much room to fit a filter in a colder area. ultimate (rolling road,bonnet open,fan assisted type) bhp and torque would suffer ever so slightly because it can't suck in quite as much air due to it being enclosed and limited to what the intake is at the end of the canister , but general, real world bhp and torque would be better because the air it does get is quite a bit cooler.

I think GSR used to sell the kit with a BMC CDA included but apparently it became to costly - Phil knows more about this than I do. If memory serves, Greggers over on FF (5dr Abarth Stilo) has that set up - GSR hosing with BMC CDA and says it works rather well. Don't know if I'd go to such costly extremes on my 1.2 though.

Still just wanting a good balance between performance and noise. Still craving that induction sound

 

[mrcinquecento]

The current result!

I removed the air filter from the factory fitted box and used that instead as no matter how hard I tried I could not get the tubing to stay on but kept off the engine. My next course of action is to remove the air cone shield and fit it down behind the light where the original factory cold air feed ran (theres a closed in channel that runs down and comes out just in front of the tire) but its working for now!

if that tube is the air intake, its bending in too many angles to be useful. the pipe should be as smooth and straight as possible, and any curves should be smoothed as much as possible so the air that gets in does so smoothly. if it can't, you'll get turbulence and it will probably lose power as it can't get a consistent supply of air to suck straight into the engine if its chopping about in the pipes.

 

[mrcinquecento]

I think GSR used to sell the kit with a BMC CDA included but apparently it became to costly - Phil knows more about this than I do. If memory serves, Greggers over on FF (5dr Abarth Stilo) has that set up - GSR hosing with BMC CDA and says it works rather well. Don't know if I'd go to such costly extremes on my 1.2 though.

Still just wanting a good balance between performance and noise. Still craving that induction sound

iirc, the bmc cda takes away most of the induction noise as its sucking the air through the canister opening rather than just being sucked in by the filter

it would give performance gains imo, but if you are after the sound too, its something worth considering/looking into

 

[muppet42]

Yeah, I was thinking that about the whole noise thing which was why I wasn't considering the BMC. Plus the price of it, if it's the same basic idea as the Apiro version, is a bit of a sticking point too.

Was going to say something similar about Fasckira's set up there but don't like to presume things about subjects I'm not 100% confident in for sake of getting flamed

Wonder if it may be better to connect the cone direct to the airbox and then have the air feed hose pointing directly at the end of it to get some cold air in. That's actually what the 57i would be like on my Stilo though in this instance it'd sit better on Fasckira's Punto - away from the rocker cover and not sitting directly above the manifold

 

[Fasckira]

Aye, my plan is to turn the cone 90 degrees to its right (so its pointing to the left there) down the premade channel and then remove the cone cover. Im aware about the pipe having too sharp a bend, that was more done to just get it fitted for now as originally I had it going across the front of the engine but it was just getting roasted above the manifold/heat shield.

As for sound, not noticing any difference at all at the moment when the bonnet is done but Im still on a stock exhaust as well. When the bonnet is up you can hear a lovely whooshing sound when the accelerator goes in though.

The problem at the moment is that the cone cant fit straight onto the airbox as the engine and the bonnet get in the way! If I place it in the existing channel down the side of the car with the cone on, just the bonnet gets in the way.

It will be interesting to see if the sound changes with the cone cover off; Ill record the sound with the cover off and the cover on so you can compare.

 

[muppet42]

Think I have an idea involving 2x 135 degree bends, some connectors a twin cone filter and some brackets. Just need to measure the space in the bay, price it up and order

That is unless Mr GSR works out how to reply to his PMs/emails

 

[Fasckira]

A slight adjustment. The photo is a bit bad but the cone is in fact pointed down the funneling that the old filter pipe ran to. For the record, it sounds a lot better, a lot more throaty now that its closer to the top of the bonnet and it echoes down that metal pipe

The next step though is to get the proper pipes and remove the old air filter housing and run it down the back of the engine to the base.

Think I have an idea involving 2x 135 degree bends, some connectors a twin cone filter and some brackets. Just need to measure the space in the bay, price it up and order

That is unless Mr GSR works out how to reply to his PMs/emails

FYI dude - http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/autoperformanceonline/
Those are the guys I ordered my breather filter from on Thursday lunchtime and it was at my door the next morning in Jersey (and they're based in England), they must have stuck it in the post as soon as they got it. They seem to be decently priced for all the parts you could need.

 

[ycming]

A slight adjustment. The photo is a bit bad but the cone is in fact pointed down the funneling that the old filter pipe ran to. For the record, it sounds a lot better, a lot more throaty now that its closer to the top of the bonnet and it echoes down that metal pipe

The next step though is to get the proper pipes and remove the old air filter housing and run it down the back of the engine to the base.



FYI dude - http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/autoperformanceonline/
Those are the guys I ordered my breather filter from on Thursday lunchtime and it was at my door the next morning in Jersey (and they're based in England), they must have stuck it in the post as soon as they got it. They seem to be decently priced for all the parts you could need.

Hmm to be honest i would rather just have one of those K&N panel filter than the set you got ...

But yeah defo remove the old air filter housing ..

Ming

 

[muppet42]

FYI dude - http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/autoperformanceonline/
Those are the guys I ordered my breather filter from on Thursday lunchtime and it was at my door the next morning in Jersey (and they're based in England), they must have stuck it in the post as soon as they got it. They seem to be decently priced for all the parts you could need.

Cheers for that, shall have a look

My basic plan is to have the 2x 135 degree lengths coming off the original intake pipe, the end of which would've been connected to the OEM airbox. The bends in those lengths and the distance it'll take it away from the OEM pipe will take it further away from the rocker cover and manifold and the filter will hopefully sit near the OS headlight

Hopefully it'll work out, but need to measure and re-measure to make sure. Should work out about the same price as a 57i either way though and it should hopefully perform better

 

[Gregry254]

So has this stopped the clunking noise when you turn the car on from cold?

 

[Fasckira]

So has this stopped the clunking noise when you turn the car on from cold?

Was just about to update that thread - yes, yes it has

 

[muppet42]

Okay, well I think I've got an idea as to the basic layout of what I want. This 5 second mock up shows the layout...

...so basically using the original air intake and directing the filter cone away from the rocker cover and not right above the manifold. Settling for a metal gauze twin cone filter coupled with a heat shield perhaps.

Main concern now though is the cold air feed. Not really sure where to direct it from. The original is the sort of concertina'd pipe coming off the original airbox and attaching to the bit above the radiator. Now, I can't angle a cold air feed in that way to direct air at the new filter - there simply isn't enough room.

Had presumed I could attach it to the air vent ahead of the OS wheel below the headlight at the front as pictured here...

...but it's not a real vent, just a fake non-open bit of black plastic. So, that leads me to 2 options I think. 1) Dremel an opening in said fake vent to accommodate a bell mouth entry for an intake obviously having some sort of mesh in front to protect from grit, etc or 2) have an intake pointing where the undertray used to be at a slight angle to the front to try and scoop cold air up. The latter seems the dodgier of the two but negates the issue of perhaps having to find a new vent panel in the future if needing to return to standard. It's also the way K&N do it with the 57i. Of course there is secret option no3 - no cold air feed, but that'd just be silly.

The other thought is, could I just have the cold air feed in that lower area of the bay? Just the GSR has no cold air feed and it's behind the fake air vent on the NS, so technically I'd imagine that'd be a good area simply to gather cold air BUT the cold air feed doesn't suck air in in the same way the cone in that area would.

Anyway, any suggestions would be met with much gratitude

 

[ABZSTILO]

Why not change your plan and draw air from below the n/s....... the JTD has a duct for the intercooler there, so all you'd need is a JTD grille for that bumper section you can then duct air to an induction kit.
The abarth, the JTD and I think maybe the 1.8 Stilos all have their airboxes down there (below the battery) so you should have plenty of space :idea3:
Certainly easier IMHO

 

[muppet42]

Why not change your plan and draw air from below the n/s....... the JTD has a duct for the intercooler there, so all you'd need is a JTD grille for that bumper section you can then duct air to an induction kit.
The abarth, the JTD and I think maybe the 1.8 Stilos all have their airboxes down there (below the battery) so you should have plenty of space :idea3:
Certainly easier IMHO

Hmm, could be an option. It'd mean having the cold air feed going further though behind or around the radiator, which I'd need to investigate in terms of space.

Phil's suggested on FSOC that I just hack off the end of the original air inlet and have the filter sitting at the front of the engine bay probably near the original funnel that fed cold air into the airbox (can't verify this as FSOC appears to be in crashing mode at the moment). Don't really want to do that as original pipe work like that can be difficult to come by.

 

[PNL]

Hmm, could be an option. It'd mean having the cold air feed going further though behind or around the radiator, which I'd need to investigate in terms of space.

Phil's suggested on FSOC that I just hack off the end of the original air inlet and have the filter sitting at the front of the engine bay probably near the original funnel that fed cold air into the airbox (can't verify this as FSOC appears to be in crashing mode at the moment). Don't really want to do that as original pipe work like that can be difficult to come by.

My idea is here..

http://www.clubfiat.net/tuning/2403-induction-query.html

Maybe delay the induction till you can pick up a new standard induction hose in case you want to put it back as standard then might be your best option..